NOM

Batman wrote:Most of this could be taken care of via e-mail if the church was interested in simplicity and letting leadership/clerks have some family time during the holidays. But, we know the church is not about simplicity. And in my view, only pays lip service to family time.

The best of bishops still know what a drag that tithing settlement is for their Christmas season. My bishop starts mid-November to get it out of the way. Some of his extended family is quite ill (and likely to pass on) and I hope he spends time being with them rather than 15 minutes with each family in the ward.

As some of you know, I have been running a science experiment going on years now where I claim to be a full tithe payer in front of the bishop and see what happens. Results so far continue to be positive and damningly duplicitous on my part. I"m aware that this annoys my wife, but she does not really want to talk about it.

Corsair wrote:

Batman wrote:Most of this could be taken care of via e-mail if the church was interested in simplicity and letting leadership/clerks have some family time during the holidays. But, we know the church is not about simplicity. And in my view, only pays lip service to family time.

The best of bishops still know what a drag that tithing settlement is for their Christmas season. My bishop starts mid-November to get it out of the way. Some of his extended family is quite ill (and likely to pass on) and I hope he spends time being with them rather than 15 minutes with each family in the ward.

As some of you know, I have been running a science experiment going on years now where I claim to be a full tithe payer in front of the bishop and see what happens. Results so far continue to be positive and damningly duplicitous on my part. I"m aware that this annoys my wife, but she does not really want to talk about it.

Since my disaffection began upon arriving in a new ward, I've just completely ignored tithing settlement. Curious to see if they continue 'radio silence' as they work down the list of people MIA in tithing settlement when they get to my name.

THey started tithing settlement appointments here last week and plan to finished by thanksgiving. THey have frequently reminded everyone you don't need to be paid up through the year, just to that point in time. I think they're hoping to free up their December schedules.

I may just put my name on the sign up sheet when no one else has signed up just to screw with them, but that would really upset Mrs Kori.

Correct, if status is not FULL TITHE, Stake Presidencymember can´t activate the TR in MLS.
It was my friend´s job to do this when he was in the Presidency (till may 2015)

Korihor wrote:Did anyone else see that post on Reddit (sorry, no link) about somewhere outside of the USA the Bishop needs to indicate tithe status online and the SP can't authorize a temple recommend unless it's Full Tithe or Exempt?

Just a new level of control. Anyone heard about this?

Yes - I read it - the clerk enters the tithing answer (full tithe payer - or not) into a computer and he OP said that was required in order to activate his TR. It raised questions (to me) that I didn't see answered when i read it - such as:

- Does the computer (or COB, whatever) care about the amount or whether it's a full tithe, or does just going through settlement satisfy things?
- Do people who aren't paying a full tithe still get a TR? For any reason? (I am guessing the answer is "No").
- Does the church get the info from the local ward and compare it to what they see on the tithing records? Such as for those who pay privately & who have reduced their donations?

I also wonder if it's one of those brilliant ideas some local bishop came up with as a way to enforce tithing. Nothing surprises me anymore.

EDIT - it looks like Meilinkie answered this in the post just before mine. I am going to write a book: Big Brother Finds Religion.

Silver Girl wrote:EDIT - it looks like Meilinkie answered this in the post just before mine. I am going to write a book: Big Brother Finds Religion.

I think, "Corporate Religion finds long-lost Big Brother" would be a little more accurate.

Korihor wrote:
THey started tithing settlement appointments here last week and plan to finished by thanksgiving. THey have frequently reminded everyone you don't need to be paid up through the year, just to that point in time. I think they're hoping to free up their December schedules.

(emphasis added)

Absolutely ridiculous that they have to do that! What a great "church!"

ETA: On the other hand, maybe it means the ward members get December off from paying tithing? "Pay 11 months and get the 12th month free while still being considered a full tithe payer!"

Red Ryder wrote:You can actually make the change yourself. No email required.

Log in to LDS.org

Go here: https://www.lds.org/donations/#/settings

Check this box: My financial statements do not need to be printed by my Ward.

I've heard you do have to enter a valid email address though.

I just got my reply email. I will let you all know how this goes. Mrs. Villager supports me in the move from Gross to Net. We will see how she feels about doing a correction over the next decade after I present her with the calculations on overpayment.

I do the "Bill Pay" thing as well. I just sent my bishop an email that says (paraphrasing),

"I pay through bill pay, you can't see my payments, My wife and I are full tithe payers, we're not coming in."

I haven't heard anything back yet.

azflyer wrote:I do the "Bill Pay" thing as well. I just sent my bishop an email that says (paraphrasing),

"I pay through bill pay, you can't see my payments, My wife and I are full tithe payers, we're not coming in."

I haven't heard anything back yet.

LOOK WHO'S BACK!

You responded in less than one minute. That scares me.

Silver Girl wrote:

Korihor wrote:Did anyone else see that post on Reddit (sorry, no link) about somewhere outside of the USA the Bishop needs to indicate tithe status online and the SP can't authorize a temple recommend unless it's Full Tithe or Exempt?

Just a new level of control. Anyone heard about this?

Yes - I read it - the clerk enters the tithing answer (full tithe payer - or not) into a computer and he OP said that was required in order to activate his TR. It raised questions (to me) that I didn't see answered when i read it - such as:

- Does the computer (or COB, whatever) care about the amount or whether it's a full tithe, or does just going through settlement satisfy things?
- Do people who aren't paying a full tithe still get a TR? For any reason? (I am guessing the answer is "No").
- Does the church get the info from the local ward and compare it to what they see on the tithing records? Such as for those who pay privately & who have reduced their donations?

I also wonder if it's one of those brilliant ideas some local bishop came up with as a way to enforce tithing. Nothing surprises me anymore.

EDIT - it looks like Meilinkie answered this in the post just before mine. I am going to write a book: Big Brother Finds Religion.

This is very inconsistent with my experience as a finance clerk. Results of tithing settlement are tracked by name and entered into the computer and sent to SLC, but those results ARE NOT linked to the TR system.

Tithe payer status numbers are used in determining where temples are built. Also, I have heard that the records are tracked and reviewed when someone a new prospective bishop is being called. All prospective bishop's (and up) have to be reviewed and approved by SLC. I have heard they review HT as well as tithing history.

azflyer wrote:

Silver Girl wrote:

Korihor wrote:Did anyone else see that post on Reddit (sorry, no link) about somewhere outside of the USA the Bishop needs to indicate tithe status online and the SP can't authorize a temple recommend unless it's Full Tithe or Exempt?

Just a new level of control. Anyone heard about this?

Yes - I read it - the clerk enters the tithing answer (full tithe payer - or not) into a computer and he OP said that was required in order to activate his TR. It raised questions (to me) that I didn't see answered when i read it - such as:

- Does the computer (or COB, whatever) care about the amount or whether it's a full tithe, or does just going through settlement satisfy things?
- Do people who aren't paying a full tithe still get a TR? For any reason? (I am guessing the answer is "No").
- Does the church get the info from the local ward and compare it to what they see on the tithing records? Such as for those who pay privately & who have reduced their donations?

I also wonder if it's one of those brilliant ideas some local bishop came up with as a way to enforce tithing. Nothing surprises me anymore.

EDIT - it looks like Meilinkie answered this in the post just before mine. I am going to write a book: Big Brother Finds Religion.

This is very inconsistent with my experience as a finance clerk. Results of tithing settlement are tracked by name and entered into the computer and sent to SLC, but those results ARE NOT linked to the TR system.

Tithe payer status numbers are used in determining where temples are built. Also, I have heard that the records are tracked and reviewed when someone a new prospective bishop is being called. All prospective bishop's (and up) have to be reviewed and approved by SLC. I have heard they review HT as well as tithing history.

That's my experience as well. Perhaps things are changing, I don't know.

BTW, welcome back azflyer!

Deepthinker wrote:BTW, welcome back azflyer!

Thanks!

azflyer wrote:You responded in less than one minute. That scares me.

OMG - I didn't even notice that. I was just headed out for the day and when closing my web browser I thought I'd check out NOM. Good timing!

Korihor wrote:

azflyer wrote:You responded in less than one minute. That scares me.

OMG - I didn't even notice that. I was just headed out for the day and when closing my web browser I thought I'd check out NOM. Good timing!

The spirit directed you to check out NOM at that time.

So I did complete the online bill pay and confidentiality instructions. It was easy! I did a test $100 payment to see if it shows up at settlement this week.

I also did a summary of payments for the last 13 years. This made me sick for several reasons. I was so blind faith believer that I paid 16.8% of my gross income to the COJCOLDS and an astounding 32.6% of my net income. OMG! (I had a very good income in the past due to selling a company).

Then I asked DW to guess how much we had paid in total $. Her guess was a mere 15% of our actual payments. This blew my mind. She had no concept of what we pay or is a horrible guesser.

So I told her I feel we have overpaid by a ton, and my proposal is to take the overpayment and divide by the remaining 25 years before retirement then reduce our future tithing payments to the net, minus the prorated adjustment.

I told her I want to pay tithing monthly to the COJCOLDS in that reduced amount (this drops my tithing check by about 80% next year). I also said that I want to donate to other charities and personal causes (like friends or family members in need). She agreed to it all.

I am so happy. This is a good place for me right now.

I can see that Rock Waterman has not been mentioned in this thread. His tithing document was so helpful for me in learning how the doctrine of tithing has changed in the COJCOLDS through the years. This puts me at peace!

I can only see donations for the past 9 years. Any idea why that is?

I would LOVE to see how much we've given since we got married 26 years ago. Whenever I think about the check I wrote after I cashed out my company stock I have to be rushed to the dentist for an emergency jaw unclenching.

On that occasion I went to the COB to pay in person, feeling all holy and noble. I was surprised by the way I was treated. No thank-you, not even a smile. I was kind of treated kind of harshly and suspiciously. I had to go through a security check and the people who took my money were unfriendly, cold and kind of rude in a way that made me feel like they thought I still wasn't doing my share, like I was holding back or something. Maybe it was just me, but I expected something very different. I went in feeling like I was doing a great thing and came out feeling like I had let God down in some way.

Hagoth wrote: ...feeling like I was doing a great thing and came out feeling like I had let God down in some way.

This pretty much sums up my entire life in the Church.

Hagoth wrote:I can only see donations for the past 9 years. Any idea why that is?.

Probably because of system changes or simply tax audit timelines, but maybe because they don't want us to realize how crazy we all are!

So sorry Hagoth!

Zadok wrote:

Hagoth wrote: ...feeling like I was doing a great thing and came out feeling like I had let God down in some way.

This pretty much sums up my entire life in the Church.

Haha, so true Zadok!