NOM

Palerider wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:32 pm I still think you're confusing some men with all men.

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:53 am Perhaps this is an oversimplification, but from my perspective in my current social circle, there are few acceptable means of self-expression for women. Taking care of one’s body and one’s attractiveness are appropriate and I know many women who do this to what I consider an extreme. I say extreme because if these women spent as much time, energy, focus and money on other things like a job, playing scrabble, learning a foreign language, playing an instrument or gardening it would not be socially acceptable. But it is 100% okay to spend those resources to “take care of my body” and to be attractive. Because of this, many of the women I know do make their attractiveness competitive with each other – they have few venues of self-expression and for some women, it becomes the only means - the way they look is where they find their self-worth (I don’t really know about this, as I don’t know what goes on in their heads, just my interpretation of my observations). I’ve often wondered what the effects of this will be as they grow older and inevitably age. But more importantly, I wonder what effects are on the children who watch their mothers do this.

A few years back I did something to myself that my husband found unattractive. He pointed out that it was unattractive to him and wanted me to change it. I replied that I found the twenty pounds he has put on to be unattractive and wanted him to change that. It surprised him that I could possibly have a problem with his attractiveness, or sex appeal. It’s just my perspective, but it surprises me that so many attractive women are coupled with men who seem to take no pride in their appearance.

I don’t need to see skin to find a man attractive, although a fit and attractive man without a shirt will catch my eye. More likely, a man who takes some care in the way he cares for his body (including things like hair & skin) and wears well-cut clothes will make a strong impression. Well-cut clothing can do a lot for both men and women. Clothes that show a lot of skin do get attention, but I personally prefer clothing that is aesthetically pleasing – the sensory experience should not be overwhelming. I really like Kate Middleton’s wardrobe.

And almost all men look good in a tux. Women and dresses run the gamut.

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:52 pm It's always bothered me a little (and now much more) that a church that claims to have a "health law" from God can't bring themselves to have the guts to say anything about gluttony in the church. But then it seems like being "big" (which really means being FAT) is a condition that has become taboo to talk about these days. Especially when there are a number of those in high leadership positions who seem to suffer from over eating. My Biblical studies show that gluttony is just as frowned upon as drunkenness, yet where are the cries for repentance regarding this human failing? Hasn't anyone seen the latest statistics showing that obesity is epidemic in America? Where are the prophets on this calamity?

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:02 pm
The WoW is so obviously a relic of the nineteenth century. Indeed, were it written today, it would decry sugar and transfats and emphasize the importance of exercise. Maybe we'd spend sacrament meeting on the treadmill...

I don’t mean to be disparaging of weight gain. I'm a normal weight for my height, but I’ve had problems with depression ever since I had my fist child and have never been able to get myself to where I’d like to be, thanks to my sugary mormon upbringing. How I would love a no calorie tea/coffee! I think it’s really unfortunate that obesity or weight gain has become an acceptable form of blame and shaming. In my husband’s defense, he says he wouldn’t eat so much if I weren’t such a good cook.

I just think it’s an interesting double standard, and one that assumes women don’t care. Perhaps women don’t care as much as men do, but I still think they care. It’s almost like we’re not allowed to talk about it. My husband was genuinely surprised when I brought it up. For some reason it was okay for him to pick at my appearance, but not okay for me to return the favor.

By the way, my grandfather (in his eighties) loves watching Fox News – he can’t get enough of those News Babes!

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:13 am I guess I'm just close enough to my grandfather's generation that I remember him saying that he could really appreciate a "well turned ankle" on a woman.

LaMachina wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:19 pm " when women didn't dress "slutty", men still found ways to objectify women's body parts! I've heard of men in very fundamentalist Muslim countries also getting hot & bothered by ankles...almost suggesting that maybe how women dress doesn't have that much to do with viewing them as sex objects? But what do I know?

LostGirl wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:45 pm As a female I would like to point out that not everything we do is to impress you blokes!

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:13 am You and I are undoubtedly from different generations. I'm heading into my mid-sixties and have been very happily married for 41 years. Some here who remember me from the former board know that I'm fairly conservative but I have empathy for those who may not be believers. I don't blame them for the way they feel and their attitudes towards God and conservatism.

So I watch Fox News frequently (among others). And I notice their penchant for mostly blonde but almost always attractive female correspondents/commentators and that many of them dress on the edge of impropriety to my way of thinking. I think Fox encourages this "look" because it gives their viewers eye candy while they get fed the "news". I think about how when I was growing up and their were only three networks, the reporters/commentators were mostly men. I'm really glad that has changed. I think women show that they have a great perspective to bring to the table and just as good of a grasp of the issues as do men. But back in those days (the 60's/70's) a woman would have been considered very risqué or even slutty if she had appeared as a professional journalist on national television the way many do today.

My wife is a vey handsome woman. Very professional. We have a healthy, loving relationship in all ways. We know we don't agree perfectly on all issues and about the solution to some of those issues that plague society and acknowledge each other's view as legitimate. Great and honest people actually can disagree in some areas and still get along fine.

I have heard her voice many times the lack of real "class" among todays men and women in their appearance. And the lamentable part is that it is so unnecessary. So whether a woman is on TV or in a bar her manner of dress does say something about her mental attitude towards herself and how she wants to be perceived. It is just my opinion that women actually mistake the solution for what they want to achieve by dressing how they "think" will draw notice away from other women and focus it upon themselves. And it is that incorrect assumption that draws the attention of the wrong kind of men and then women can't figure out "why"? It's like trying to correct poor eyesight by taking an aspirin.
Any man with a good eye can tell what's going on with a woman's figure without seeing the naked package. I guess I'm just close enough to my grandfather's generation that I remember him saying that he could really appreciate a "well turned ankle" on a woman.

By professing that they "just want to look good and sexy" and that it has nothing to do with attracting attention, we then raise the debate about what is "good" which for all intents and purposes becomes a trip down the rabbit hole in this type of venue. I believe we already had something similar to that debate on another thread. All I can say is good luck with where this seems to be going, but then I have a tendency to be a little pessimistic at times.....