Visions

[stuck]

I have an ancestor who was in the Kirtland temple with JS was there and said that he looked where JS was looking and saw 6 persons dressed in white wearing baker's hats and mocasins. He said that this vision strengthened his testimony of the temple later on. This is sort of an impressive vision to me, but there's got to be an explanation right? He may have been fasting and had some alcohol (maybe laced with magic mushrooms?) during the sacrament. Also B12 deficiency can result from fasting which can cause hallucinations. For myself I had an auditory hallucination I believe when I was stressing about debating my wife about the church. It was probably caused by the stress I think.

Any of you have an explanation of "visions"?

Thanks

[Red Ryder]

While I agree with your ideas around alcohol and mushrooms, I’m also a believer that some people just make stuff up.

I’ve heard a few whoppers told over the pulpit over the years as well as family stories. Some are just plain made up.

[deacon blues]

Stories/Myths grow in the telling. an example from my family is my dad telling me a guy with a welder showed up on a lonely country road and helped him fix his plow. the story has been retold by other family members as a possible 3 Nephites story. But I never heard my Dad say anything about the three Nephites, only others mentioned three Nephites.

[dogbite]

I'm with Thomas Payne. Until god speaks/shows the same to everyone equally, it's all just hearsay.

And a form of bigotry. Allegedly the Christian god is no respecter of persons so shouldn't play favorites with prophets and all that.

Visions? Part of the religious scam.

[Hagoth]

I think people have mental experiences that become more significant and detailed every time they remember them or recite them. I have no doubt that your ancestor remembered it that way, but maybe it started as an impression that became more solid over time.

I do believe Joseph's sacrament was laced with something. Possibly mushrooms, but more likely Datura, which was a plant they used in that time/region for all kinds of medicinal purposes, and it just happens to be hallucinogenic.

https://seerstonedproductions.com/

I've told this story here before. I have a friend whose miraculous missionary stories led Deseret Book to ask him to contribute a chapter to a book they were planning about mission miracles. He agreed, but thought he should go back to his missionary journal and make sure he had all the facts right. To his amazement, and disappointment, the stories as he had originally written them were not miraculous at all. They had become miraculous all by themselves in the intervening years. He declined to write the chapter.

[stuck]

I searched the internet and found a couple of reddit posts that seemed to apply. One under ParleyPrattskin and the one below that Truthisantimormon. Here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... ?rdt=36748

[deacon blues]

Comparing earth life to leaving home for college is a theme I often heard, especially while attending BYU. Visions, revelations, and other other worldly experiences spoiled this idea for me. At college students have equal access to teachers and knowledge, while in the "Plan of Salvation" we were supposed to trust a prophet(s) who had the special gift/calling to speak to God. Mormon Jesus spoke to the prophet and the rest of us got the message 2nd hand, unless we were "fortunate" enough to have our own visions/revelations which we were not to share with others.
The lesson of Church history shows us when more than one person has a vision the visions almost always conflict, and chaos results.

[Hagoth]

We often hear stories about how people saw angels, tongues of flame, etc. at the Kirtland temple dedication. What they never tell you is that none of these were seen by everyone. Each was reported by a different individuals, and some are genuinely bizarre. One person saw a hunched over old man with spooky black eyes and was told by Joseph it was Jesus. They also don't tell you about the wine that was passed around in buckets.

The visions did not happen during the dedication proper, but at the afterparty, where Joseph's School of the Prophets buddies drank copious amounts of his sacramental wine an hour or so before the visions got into full swing.