Fight The New Drug

[moksha]

John posed the question, Why does the Church continually support problematic therapists, like Jodi Hildebrandt, Maurice Harker, and Thom Harrison? And then they kick out therapists that actually attempt to follow accepted best practices and scientifically informed approaches and views, such as Natasha Helfer?

John answered the question, It's because the Church's teachings are so out of line with what we understand from science. They can't accept a therapist who will lead people to scientifically accepted beliefs. Instead, they get these people that nominally accept the Church's teachings, but would be censured by any recognized licensing body and have used not only questionable practices but unethical and sometimes illegal ones.

During his comments (paraphrased above, not quoted), John repeated multiple times, "Masturbation is normative". In other words, masturbation is normal and is a normal thing among humans (and various types of animals). The idea that it is wrong is based only upon its sinfulness and is not supported by scientifically-based inquiry.

That is such an excellent exposition of what is going on.

Why does the LDS Church do this? Are the leaders still living in the Victorian era, or do they believe that the best way to maintain control over believer's minds is to exert some unnatural control over their bodies?

[Wonderment]

Jeffet wrote:

During his comments (paraphrased above, not quoted), John repeated multiple times, "Masturbation is normative". In other words masturbation is normal and is a normal thing among humans (and various types of animals). The idea that it is wrong is based only upon its sinfulness and is not supported by scientifically-based inquiry.

He didn't address the concept of porn there, but we have to take his informed, expert opinion on masturbation with some degree of credence. He certainly is more informed on the current understanding of the topic than myself, and I expect than anyone else here.

If masturbation is normative then personal sexual stimulation and arousal certainly is. That necessarily shifts the consideration away from whether porn is the mighty problem portrayed in the Mormon Church. (It's not that mighty problem, except when the problem is self-created -- forget the pink elephant.) We should not label porn, per se, including bare shoulders, as good or evil, which is also a very distorted way of looking at things.

I am very sympathetic to the hundreds of thousands of Mormon teenagers that have guilt and shame dumped on them when they confess to masturbation and then are told that they are not worthy to serve a mission, pass the Sacrament, and so forth. The church's obsession with masturbation is so cruel and unnecessary. The church believes that by controlling their adherents sexuality, then they can control their minds. Sexuality is only to be used for procreation, and nothing else. Sexuality causes pleasure, along with "spilled seed", and the church cannot accept that. This doctrine is so rigid, cruel, and unyielding, that it makes thousands of people miserable.
I have attended many different Christian churches, and I cannot think of any other one which is as obsessed with masturbation. It's just unfathomable how obsessed they are with it. -- Wndr.

[Bonfire]

Jeffet wrote:

During his comments (paraphrased above, not quoted), John repeated multiple times, "Masturbation is normative". In other words masturbation is normal and is a normal thing among humans (and various types of animals). The idea that it is wrong is based only upon its sinfulness and is not supported by scientifically-based inquiry.

He didn't address the concept of porn there, but we have to take his informed, expert opinion on masturbation with some degree of credence. He certainly is more informed on the current understanding of the topic than myself, and I expect than anyone else here.

If masturbation is normative then personal sexual stimulation and arousal certainly is. That necessarily shifts the consideration away from whether porn is the mighty problem portrayed in the Mormon Church. (It's not that mighty problem, except when the problem is self-created -- forget the pink elephant.) We should not label porn, per se, including bare shoulders, as good or evil, which is also a very distorted way of looking at things.

I am very sympathetic to the hundreds of thousands of Mormon teenagers that have guilt and shame dumped on them when they confess to masturbation and then are told that they are not worthy to serve a mission, pass the Sacrament, and so forth. The church's obsession with masturbation is so cruel and unnecessary. The church believes that by controlling their adherents sexuality, then they can control their minds. Sexuality is only to be used for procreation, and nothing else. Sexuality causes pleasure, along with "spilled seed", and the church cannot accept that. This doctrine is so rigid, cruel, and unyielding, that it makes thousands of people miserable.
I have attended many different Christian churches, and I cannot think of any other one which is as obsessed with masturbation. It's just unfathomable how obsessed they are with it. -- Wndr.

Do you think they do this to harness terror?
Kids chancetb in their sleep along with adults.
Controlling their mind to imagine procreation releases such energy in their dreams.

[Jeffret]

Do you think they do this to harness terror?

I wouldn't put it quite that way, but yeah, pretty much.

[Hagoth]

The church believes that by controlling their adherents sexuality, then they can control their minds.

But somehow remain oblivious the the fact that they are actually creating unnecessary obsessions and compulsions that have real consequences in peoples' lives. Or do they care so much about control that they are willing to accept that marriages will be destroyed, children will commit suicide, people will live in endless anxiety and self-hatred, as long as institutional control wins out?

[Bonfire]

The church believes that by controlling their adherents sexuality, then they can control their minds.

But somehow remain oblivious the the fact that they are actually creating unnecessary obsessions and compulsions that have real consequences in peoples' lives. Or do they care so much about control that they are willing to accept that marriages will be destroyed, children will commit suicide, people will live in endless anxiety and self-hatred, as long as institutional control wins out?

Need a secular example look no more: News, social media, movies, recordings

Discussion boards give necessary release.

[Just This Guy]

Maybe I am missing something or maybe something is getting lost in translation. But these recent posts by Bonfire make no sense to me. They don't even seam like something written by a TBM. It comes across more like AI generated nonsense than a coherent point about anything.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is coming across as either a bot or a rather lazy trolling attempt.

[Jeffret]

Maybe I am missing something or maybe something is getting lost in translation. But these recent posts by Bonfire make no sense to me. They don't even seam like something written by a TBM. It comes across more like AI generated nonsense than a coherent point about anything.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is coming across as either a bot or a rather lazy trolling attempt.

Could be, but I assumed just a standard variety incoherent human.

[CaptainSalty]

I can confirm Bonfire is not an AI bot.

[wtfluff]

Maybe I am missing something or maybe something is getting lost in translation. But these recent posts by Bonfire make no sense to me. They don't even seam like something written by a TBM. It comes across more like AI generated nonsense than a coherent point about anything.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is coming across as either a bot or a rather lazy trolling attempt.

You're not wrong.

I can confirm Bonfire is not an AI bot.

AI Troll?

[alas]

Maybe I am missing something or maybe something is getting lost in translation. But these recent posts by Bonfire make no sense to me. They don't even seam like something written by a TBM. It comes across more like AI generated nonsense than a coherent point about anything.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is coming across as either a bot or a rather lazy trolling attempt.

You're not wrong.

I can confirm Bonfire is not an AI bot.

AI Troll?

To call bonfire an AI troll, one has to first find some sign of intelligence, artificial or otherwise.

I have suspected he is a troll, and the acting TBM didn’t get enough of a rise out of anyone, so he decided to try other tactics. “Let’s see if quoting scripture out of context can start an argument.” Nope. So, he tried gobbledegook.

If we just continue to ignore him, or go about our business as if we aren’t impressed, he will give up. It is like a flasher. They want the woman to run away screaming, not shrug and say she has seen better. So, yeah, we have seen much better trolling, and if we wanted to argue with a TBM, we have plenty in our families we could argue with. But it just isn’t worth it.

[Wonderment]

The church believes that by controlling their adherents sexuality, then they can control their minds.

But somehow remain oblivious the the fact that they are actually creating unnecessary obsessions and compulsions that have real consequences in peoples' lives. Or do they care so much about control that they are willing to accept that marriages will be destroyed, children will commit suicide, people will live in endless anxiety and self-hatred, as long as institutional control wins out?

They believe that if marriages are destroyed, children commit suicide, etc., it is due to turning away from the spirit and listening to the adversary.

The adversary is the source of all bad things, and obedience to the church is the source of all good things. In these high demand religions, there is great reward ( a life in the eternities with Jesus) or unbelievably horrible consequences- a life in outer darkness,separated from everyone - or in some churches, burning in hell for eternity.

Anything sexual that does not relate to procreation is seen as dangerous. The church (or churches) have insidious ways of controlling people, with devastating consequences. It is mental control and physical control (by denying sexuality).

And what is amazing, is that some of the people who commit the worst sexual excesses, are closely associated with churches, i.e., Jimmy Swaggert, or Jim Bakker, or a number of Catholic priests, or Jerry Falwell and wife. Or the prophet Joseph, who appears to have been a man of strong sexual appetites.

[Jeffret]

And what is amazing, is that some of the people who commit the worst sexual excesses, are closely associated with churches, i.e., Jimmy Swaggert, or Jim Bakker, or a number of Catholic priests, or Jerry Falwell and wife. Or the prophet Joseph, who appears to have been a man of strong sexual appetites.

Political blogger JoeMyGod has been keeping a running tally of people in legal trouble for child sexual abuse. He's up to 20 for the month of October and 260 since November 1, 2022. Almost all of them, like all but an extremely small handful, are church leaders. From conservative, typically anti-gay churches. Notably, not a single occurrence involves a drag queen.

[Hermey]

This thread is hilarious! Oh, and as for Team Edward or Team Jacob, my wife will take Team Lewis Hamilton. She loves to watch F1. If my wife wants a life size cutout of Lewis or Chris Hemsworth--wall, ceiling, or whatever, I am totally good with that. Christmas is approaching; am searching Amazon now.


And now, a word from our sponsors. For those of you who prefer some scriptural eye-candy, how 'bout some Angel Moroni for you. (Salt Lake Acting Company: Saturday's Voyeur - 2018) Happy Hump Day folks!

IMG_3550.JPG (107.7 KiB) Viewed 18383 times

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[Hagoth]

Political blogger JoeMyGod has been keeping a running tally of people in legal trouble for child sexual abuse.

Can you share a link, Jeffret?

[Jeffret]

Joe doesn't keep it organized so it's hard to find all of them -- it's a running tally.

Here's the latest case he shared: https://www.joemygod.com/2023/10/florid ... sex-sting/

He keeps the tally on Twitter (which I'm not very fond of, especially after Musk took it over to try and control it). The latest tally, about that case is at https://twitter.com/JoeMyGod/status/1719425098703134866

Many of the others can be found by digging through Joe's "crime" category: https://www.joemygod.com/category/crime/

Maybe there's a way to search them on Twitter also, but Musk's involvement certainly didn't improve its usability.

[Jeffret]

The latest case: 75 Year Old Baptist School Teacher Gets Ten Years For Child Sex

And the tally: First one this month. 233rd so far in 2023.

[Just This Guy]

One thing that has come up with all the investigation to Tim Ballard is that the people who created the "Fight the New Drug" campaign were big supporters of the "Visions of Glory" book and author. The are documented connections between the founds of FtNG and people Like Tim Ballard, Lori Daybell, Jodi Hilldebrant, and a lot of the really nutty people that are big into that book.

If nothing else, that help explain the obsession with porn and the complete disregard for science and modern psychology in their BS "treatment".

[Hagoth]

One thing that has come up with all the investigation to Tim Ballard is that the people who created the "Fight the New Drug" campaign were big supporters of the "Visions of Glory" book and author. The are documented connections between the founds of FtNG and people Like Tim Ballard, Lori Daybell, Jodi Hilldebrant, and a lot of the really nutty people that are big into that book.

If nothing else, that help explain the obsession with porn and the complete disregard for science and modern psychology in their BS "treatment".

Because nothing really helps people improve their lives like convincing them that they have fallen captive to satanic darkness and are controlled by evil spirits.

[Bonfire]

I received an epiphany which resolves this issue for me: Let people register with their mental health institution for a medicinal prescription of visual stimulation, taken anonymously (without administrative viewing statistics nor history), which accepts content donations as a tax write-off.

Alternatively, I would encourage each ward to setup a stimuli server and invite people with these struggles to church for their burdens to be made light.

Do you think people who use porn need to be identified like criminals? If not, then consider that the church is for this kind of support.