Why don't they teach this aspect of Celestial Marriage?

[Hagoth]

D&C 132 is simultaneously the most (mis)quoted, and the most ignored piece of doctrine in all of Mormondom. Please read along with me and tell me if I'm misunderstanding this:

D&C 132:26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

Here's what it says to me, and pretty clearly:

If you are married in the temple there is NOTHING either of you can do to prevent you from coming forth in the first resurrection and entering your exaltation (i.e. the Celestial Kingdom). If you commit any sins, no matter how heinous, with the sole exception of murder (and denial of the HG, as we read later), you will have to suffer for them between the time of your death and resurrection, but you will be fully atoned at that point.

Verses 15-19 explain that marriages not performed by proper priesthood authority are dissolved at death and the individuals go on to be angels in the hereafter, but for those who are married correctly, even if they commit "any sin" and "all manner of blasphemies," are promised:

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

[Red Ryder]

Isn’t that really just a built in excuse for Joseph to commit all manners of blasphemies?

Seems like he wrote in a few exemptions for himself.

[deacon blues]

I recall Joseph fielding Smith trying to address this in an "Answers to Gospel Questions" probably in the fifties or sixties. He tried to say the passage didn't mean what it obviously said. Then he reaffirmed that sealed people could still go to the terrestrial or telestial kingdom if they didn't live up to every covenant they made.
As a teenager it was one of many things that confused me.
I recently got rid of the six volume Answers to Gospel Questions. I just have to many books, and the old Joseph fielding Smith books took up too much space.
I am hanging on to my first edition McConkie Gospel Doctrine though. From time to time I read it to remind me of the kind of silly things I used to learn in Seminary.

[Hagoth]

I recall Joseph fielding Smith trying to address this in an "Answers to Gospel Questions" probably in the fifties or sixties. He tried to say the passage didn't mean what it obviously said. Then he reaffirmed that sealed people could still go to the terrestrial or telestial kingdom if they didn't live up to every covenant they made.

Yes, this doctrine is just too universalist for a narrow-minded wanna-be tyrant like JFS. Same for Bednar, who is trying to walk these kinds of doctrines back. Unfortunately for them, it appears that it was stated pretty clearly by God via Joseph Smith. I don't believe that, but how can they deny it? But this is in a world where we can just change the meanings of words and entire swaths of doctrine on a whim.

Apostle James E. Faust taught this in April 2003 General Conference:

I believe and accept the comforting statement of Elder Orson F. Whitney:

“The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.”

Bednar has specifically denied this doctrine. He really wants your kids to be in hell if they stand up before he does. So which apostle should a good Latter-Day Saint believe, Faust or Bednar? Both seem to feel free to interpret it according to their own degree of love and forgiveness for their fellow men. A lot of people will be either delighted or very disappointed in the next life, depending on which Witness of the Name of Jesus Christ they choose to believe.

Whether these totalitarian dudes like it or not, the doctrine seems to be that a sealing is permanent and no bitter apostle can put it asunder.

[wtfluff]

I don't remember where I learned / was taught this, but the key words of that verse are highlighted:

D&C 132:26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

"Sealed by the Holy Spirit(Spook) of promise" means having your "calling and election made sure" which means you've received the Second Anointing. Only those lucky enough to get an "appointment" with a GA and get their tootsies washed are able to "commit any sin or transgression" and still have their golden ticket to the celestial kingdom remain intact.




And.. I detest that Divine Octopus quote. My parents cling to that statement like you wouldn't believe. If they just MORmON hard enough, any of their "posterity who strays" will have their agency removed at some point, and they'll return to the fold. Does that happen before or after I kick Elohim and Joseph in the crotch with all my might, mind and strength? (Assuming the MORmON afterlife is "the way it is.")

[alas]

I don't remember where I learned / was taught this, but the key words of that verse are highlighted:

D&C 132:26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

"Sealed by the Holy Spirit(Spook) of promise" means having your "calling and election made sure" which means you've received the Second Anointing. Only those lucky enough to get an "appointment" with a GA and get their tootsies washed are able to "commit any sin or transgression" and still have their golden ticket to the celestial kingdom remain intact.




And.. I detest that Divine Octopus quote. My parents cling to that statement like you wouldn't believe. If they just MORmON hard enough, any of their "posterity who strays" will have their agency removed at some point, and they'll return to the fold. Does that happen before or after I kick Elohim and Joseph in the crotch with all my might, mind and strength? (Assuming the MORmON afterlife is "the way it is.")

This. The confusion is because we don’t talk about Bru….I mean the 2nd anointing, so we can’t clarify what it is talking about because it is a private club and the first rule of fight club is we don’t talk about fight club or Bruno.

[Red Ryder]

How does the 2nd anointing play into this?

Where is the 2nd anointing discussed in the D&C?

If it’s not there then how did it come to be an ordinance?

I also recall that the Deseret news or whatever the newspaper was called back in the day used to list the people who received their 2nd anointing. So it was known to the public at some point? But then nearly disappeared in modern times and is now done in secret?

[wtfluff]

How does the 2nd anointing play into this?

Where is the 2nd anointing discussed in the D&C?

If it’s not there then how did it come to be an ordinance?

I also recall that the Deseret news or whatever the newspaper was called back in the day used to list the people who received their 2nd anointing. So it was known to the public at some point? But then nearly disappeared in modern times and is now done in secret?

D&C 131:5.

(Also see alas' comments about not talking about what we're typing about. )

[Red Ryder]

5 (May 17th, 1843.) The more sure word ofprophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto ceternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

Gotcha. Don’t talk about fight club.

[wtfluff]

5 (May 17th, 1843.) The more sure word ofprophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto ceternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

Gotcha. Don’t talk about fight club.

Don't talk about stinky feet club.

(You go to stinky feet club to get your tootsies washed.)

[Rob4Hope]

I read a paper about this topic. The feet washing was used as a way to further enforce BY being the rightful next leader because he had his feeties washed and guys like Rigdon didn’t.

This is what is called the “Second Anointing”, “The More Sure Word of Prophecy”, “Having your Calling and Election Made Sure”, and “Receiving the Fullness of the Priesthood.”

But lest you think that is ALL that is at stake, remember the writing of the apostle Paul who said: “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God”. That means, in affect, NO ONE IS INNOCENT.

Taking that into account, it gives license to also murder. After all, no one is “innocent blood”.

Did Joe use this loophole to go after Boggs, and even more to the point, what about Brigham and his “destroying angels” like Bill Hickman, Porter Rockwell and others?

There are contemporary writers who claimed that Brigham had a band of brigands he would send out to murder people he didn’t want around, and blame it on the Indians.

This D&C scripture is a license to the “good old boys club” of athletic-fungus-free feet people to commit murder….such as Mountain Meadows Massacre….etc.


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[Hagoth]

"Sealed by the Holy Spirit(Spook) of promise" means having your "calling and election made sure" which means you've received the Second Anointing. Only those lucky enough to get an "appointment" with a GA and get their tootsies washed are able to "commit any sin or transgression" and still have their golden ticket to the celestial kingdom remain intact.

That's a good point, but the definitions of these things are so slippery-slimly, good luck pinning them down. If you go back and read verses 6 and 7 it really sounds like the Holy Spirit of Promise is the name he's using for the marriage sealing, and that marriages not performed with said Holy Spirit of Promise "are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead." So, if it is referring specifically to the Second Anointing that we know and love today, that would mean there is no eternal sealing for people who don't have the 2nd foot washing. Maybe that's the real plan. The second-anointed guys get all the women.

And.. I detest that Divine Octopus quote. My parents cling to that statement like you wouldn't believe. If they just MORmON hard enough, any of their "posterity who strays" will have their agency removed at some point, and they'll return to the fold. Does that happen before or after I kick Elohim and Joseph in the crotch with all my might, mind and strength? (Assuming the MORmON afterlife is "the way it is.")

I kind of like it because it says it could happen in this life or the next. It takes some heat off the parents because they can go to their graves with the hope that their fantasies will come true in Happy Cloud Land. Unless they're listening to Bednar, who for whatever dumbass reason, thinks he's obliged to take even that sliver of hope away from them.