Joseph Smith and the curse of the flaming sword

[Zeezrom]

Just thinking back to my TBM days when I’d go on splits with the missionaries and an investigator brought up Joseph Smith and polygamy. The missionaries enthusiastically chimed in that Joseph didn’t want to do it but an angel with a flaming sword threatened to kill him if he didn’t.

It speaks to the mind numbing ability of a cult that this used to sound like a reasonable answer to me. Looking back I can’t believe the investigator didn’t bust a gut laughing.

Is this not the absolute dumbest excuse a man has ever given in history for sleeping around????

Can anyone even give me a close second in the dumbest excuse ever category??

[Hagoth]

Can anyone even give me a close second in the dumbest excuse ever category??

That would also have to go to Joseph Smith. I have a book written on gold plates that has been waiting for thousands of years to be rediscovered, but you can't look at it because it has a death curse on it. Hmmm. A pattern?

[Hagoth]

I take that back. That would have to be number three.

Number two would be that other thing missionaries tell investigators about the gold plates: the angel took them back.

[AllieOop]

Just thinking back to my TBM days when I’d go on splits with the missionaries and an investigator brought up Joseph Smith and polygamy. The missionaries enthusiastically chimed in that Joseph didn’t want to do it but an angel with a flaming sword threatened to kill him if he didn’t.

It speaks to the mind numbing ability of a cult that this used to sound like a reasonable answer to me. Looking back I can’t believe the investigator didn’t bust a gut laughing.

Is this not the absolute dumbest excuse a man has ever given in history for sleeping around????

It was actually a "drawn sword" in his original quotes (I believe someone added "flaming" years later).

However, there was an angel with a flaming sword who supposedly guarded the tree of life

What is really crazy is that Joseph was already living the principle (he had at least 18 wives at that point) and had restored it when he used this to get I believe Zina Huntington (iirc) to marry him. So we are to believe than an angel appeared and threatened him with destruction after he was already willingly living polygamy?
Crazy, but some fell for it and married him.

[Zeezrom]

Why does an angel need a sword to destroy someone anyway?? Lol I guess having a sword and omnipotent priesthood power is better than just omnipotent priesthood power.

[wtfluff]

Sorry folks, but we're skirting the real question here.

Drawn sword, flaming sword, dagger, pocket-knife. Who cares?


Did Joseph ask the angel to shake his hand?!?!?! - THAT is the question we should be asking.

Can anyone even give me a close second in the dumbest excuse ever category??

I guess hand-shaking ghosts is not a dumb excuse, just one of my favorite "dumb MORmON things" in general. Of course if I do ever see a ghost/angel, I'm definitely going to give it the hand-shake test. DEFINITELY.

[moksha]

They faced each other down on the streets of Kirkland. The Angel had a determined look, but Joseph's eyes were brimming over with both fidelity for Emma and a burning itch best not to describe in polite company. The Angel spoke first, "It's your choice, Joseph". Joseph squinted and replied, "Draw, Angel".

[deacon blues]

They faced each other down on the streets of Kirkland. The Angel had a determined look, but Joseph's eyes were brimming over with both fidelity for Emma and a burning itch best not to describe in polite company. The Angel spoke first, "It's your choice, Joseph". Joseph squinted and replied, "Draw, Angel".

Dang this is funny pardner!

[Hagoth]

I love how the angel just didn't have quite enough enthusiasm to actually appear to the person who needed to be persuaded, but only to the guy who benefitted from it.

[Zeezrom]

I love how the angel just didn't have quite enough enthusiasm to actually appear to the person who needed to be persuaded, but only to the guy who benefitted from it.

This ^^^^^

[Gatorbait]

It was actually a "drawn sword" in his original quotes (I believe someone added "flaming" years later).

However, there was an angel with a flaming sword who supposedly guarded the tree of life



Angels and swords- that's a hoot- but it is easy to tell the difference between the two angels.

1. Tree angel, light on his feet cause he has to sit in a tree all day. No eye brows, as the flaming sword burns them off.

2. Drawn sword angel, at the ready whenever Jos. Smith wanted a new girl friend and she said no. This angel is difficult to pick out because he never existed in the first place unlike Jos. Smith's oversized sex drive.

[Jeffret]

In "Good Omens" (book by Pratchett and Gaimain, and later Amazon Video series) we learn the history of the angel with the flaming sword from the Garden of Eden, Aziraphale. In their retelling of it, the story is a little bit different from what actually shows up in the Bible.

[stealthbishop]

It's so crazy to realize that I would not have even thought twice about this back in the day. BUT, (for many of us) when you are inside the pill bottle it's difficult to read the label.

[Hagoth]

I have always wondered why Swordy McAngel didn't show up at Haun's Mill, or to lead Zion's Camp to victory instead of failure, or someplace where the suffering saints really needed divine help in a way that was more urgent than ensuring that Brother Joseph was getting enough teen action.

Is it too harsh to suggest that the sword-bearing angel was to joseph smith what the roofie was to Bill Cosby?

[jfro18]

I have always wondered why Swordy McAngel didn't show up at Haun's Mill, or to lead Zion's Camp to victory instead of failure, or someplace where the suffering saints really needed divine help in a way that was more urgent than ensuring that Brother Joseph was getting enough teen action.

Isn't that really the easiest way to know it's all BS? The fact is that God has the ability to send an angel with a drawn sword to help Joseph get young brides, yet can't be bothered to help the church from the mobs... tell them to boil water... etc.

Is it too harsh to suggest that the sword-bearing angel was to joseph smith what the roofie was to Bill Cosby?

It's really not... we just recorded the Happiness Letter episode yesterday and I was about to lose it going through the wording Joseph uses to try and coerce Nancy Rigdon. The angel with a drawn sword story is the same thing and Joseph only pulls the story out when women reject him which is even more abhorrent.

[moksha]

Is it too harsh to suggest that the sword-bearing angel was to joseph smith what the roofie was to Bill Cosby?

The future spirit of Sigmund Freud could have appeared to Joseph and told him "to follow his banana".

[Hagoth]

The overwhelmingly obvious weakness to this story, of course, is that the angel never appeared to the girls themselves. It' has the same legitimacy as a guy walking up to you in the street and saying, "the police said you have to give me all of your money or they will send me to the electric chair."

ETA: this scenario is actually far more likely because the police and the electric chair actually exist.

[jfro18]

The overwhelmingly obvious weakness to this story, of course, is that the angel never appeared to the girls themselves. It' has the same legitimacy as a guy walking up to you in the street and saying, "the police said you have to give me all of your money or they will send me to the electric chair."

ETA: this scenario is actually far more likely because the police and the electric chair actually exist.

Absolutely and I will be using this analogy on Mormon Stories when we get to it because the example is a brilliant way to how nonsensical the story is.

I cannot believe people defend this... it's one of the most transparently awful tactics you'll ever see.

[deacon blues]

Considering some of the crazy dreams I have had, I think think it's entirely possible that Joseph DREAMED about an angel with a drawn sword. Add to this the explanations, particularly in 1st Nephi, that dreams and visions are the same thing, and we have a case for a 'pious fraud' Joseph telling this story.
Heck, maybe that's what made the Lafferty Bros. do the crazy things they did-- DREAMS.
I don't get why LDS cling to angel stories like this?
The least they could do is say, "Well I might be wrong." or "It might have been a dream."