I'm officially a lazy learner!

[AdmiralHoldo]

Attending church has been sucking more and more since my faith crisis. The week a brother gave a talk in SM about how the Church has always been honest and open about its history and nobody ever lied about Joseph Smith's polygamy, well, that was a pretty bad one. Hearing about how much God loves us (when I know for a fact He can't stand me) and hearing about the prosperity gospel (number of times DH or I was laid off when we were full tithe payers: 8. Number of times we have been laid off since he stopped paying: 0.) while knowing that the Church is sitting upon untold billions of dollars that they don't want the faithful to know about. Rusty throwing a temper tantrum about the word 'Mormon' and the priesthood being totally ineffective in preventing or curing Covid. And the worshipping of the heterosexual nuclear family has gotten really tough since one of my kids came out as gay. Oh, my son has autism and isn't going to be serving a mission, and my college age daughter drinks coffee and goes to a non-Church school.

Anyway, the breaking point was last Sunday, when a well-meaning sister talked about how Adam and Eve are this beautiful love story for the ages, and how their marriage is an equal partnership which we should all try to emulate. And I pulled up Genesis chapter 3 where God says to Eve "your husband will rule over you" and I just thought, on what planet is that an equal partnership? And as I was dumping on my husband on the drive home (I think that's his favorite part of the Sabbath) I realized that the cognitive dissonance is causing me SEVERE emotional distress. I feel like, every time I attend church, a piece of me dies. Sometimes it's really a tiny piece (the closing speaker in SM always has to be a man), sometimes it's a large piece (paying tithing helps you to be a successful Mary Kay seller), but it's every. single. week. And I can't just keep chipping off pieces of myself like this. I'm running out.

So I finally said those magic words: "I'm taking a break from church." I thought DH would be upset, but there was a football game, so he was only like 30% listening to me anyway. And you know something else - I haven't given a talk since 2015. I haven't held a calling since 2018. I don't feed the missionaries because I refuse to be treated like a sexual predator in my own home. I don't hold a TR since I refuse to discuss my underpants with men I barely know. Even my husband, whose Mormon bona fides are good (pioneer ancestors etc.) doesn't hold a calling either. He was on the leadership track for a while, but then he was laid off from 6 different jobs in like 8 years so he's clearly not bishopric material. He's 47 and he's still an elder and I don't see that changing anytime soon. He even wears blue shirts to church sometimes and has a full beard! So, the ward is going to be just fine without me. To be honest, I doubt anybody will even notice I'm gone!

I'm enjoying my first 'Second Saturday' since quarantine. Listening to some beautiful classical music, lesson planning, and baking bread from scratch like Spencer W. Kimball says wives should be doing instead of working.

[Wonderment]

So I finally said those magic words: "I'm taking a break from church." I thought DH would be upset, but there was a football game, so he was only like 30% listening to me anyway. And you know something else - I haven't given a talk since 2015. I haven't held a calling since 2018. I don't feed the missionaries because I refuse to be treated like a sexual predator in my own home. I don't hold a TR since I refuse to discuss my underpants with men I barely know. Even my husband, whose Mormon bona fides are good (pioneer ancestors etc.) doesn't hold a calling either. He was on the leadership track for a while, but then he was laid off from 6 different jobs in like 8 years so he's clearly not bishopric material. He's 47 and he's still an elder and I don't see that changing anytime soon. He even wears blue shirts to church sometimes and has a full beard! So, the ward is going to be just fine without me. To be honest, I doubt anybody will even notice I'm gone!

Good for you for taking a break from church ! Your message is heartfelt and very well written ! The church is a volunteer orgqanization, and no one should feel forced to attend an organization where they feel uncomfortable, or they feel that disinformation is given out, or they feel unaccepted.
By the way, the last thing in the world that is an "equal partnership" or a "love story for the ages" is Adam and Eve. What nonsense. They are held out as the reason the entire world fell into sin and degradation. They are the source of original sin. So what on earth is the sister talking about? That absolute b.s.
I hope you can stay away from church for a long time. You have a lot of support from everyone here. Very best wishes, and keep us posted. - Wndr.

[Angel]

Happy second Saturday! I was the first to spend Sundays outside walking around in the trees, now everyone sees the sunlight - had a wonderful walkabout this morning.

Haha - relatives with kids were over, everyone frantically getting ready. One of the little kids looked me up and down puzzled (no Sunday dress, no stressed look on face), was pulled out door before they could question me - I just smiled and waved, watched the little gears turning in those little heads .

[Hagoth]

"I'm taking a break from church."

Probably the healthiest thing you've ever done for yourself. High five!

[2bizE]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Admiral. I understand the stress you are going through.
My wife and family went to church 2-3 times last year and haven’t been since June. It has truly improved our mental health. The cognitive dissonance was killing me. I couldn’t take it anymore. The gospel doctrine teacher would mention every week she taught how beautiful the BoM was and that there had never been any changes to it….there were too many talks like this in Sacrament as well… Of course, if you speak up and correct the teacher, you will be thought of as an apostate….so I kept my mouth shut until I couldn’t take it anymore.
The best part is that my wife and kids stopped going the same time I did, so it has been nice.

[wtfluff]

Congrats Admiral.

I feel like, every time I attend church, a piece of me dies.

I remember those days. For me, I just felt like I was dying on the inside in general.

Reminds me of this excellent "toon" I stole from another apostate internet haven:

MaskOn.jpg (159.76 KiB) Viewed 7407 times

[MoPag]

Way to go! Second Saturdays are the best!

[stealthbishop]

I'm glad you set some boundaries for yourself Admiral! Self-care in this process is so important and yet so difficult for so many people to do under so many different circumstances. Sounds like you might be in a very conservative area or ward perhaps (or have very conservative leadership) if they will not allow a woman to be the concluding speaker. That's a bad sign! All the more reason why you need to take a break.

We go to church sporadically. But, I have really valued my "second Saturdays". I hope they are healing and refreshing for you!

[moksha]

Sometimes we just need to give ourselves a pep talk.

[hallew]

Every time I go to church I leave exhausted. I feel on guard just waiting for whatever is said from the pulpit or in class to trigger me or just break me a little bit more. The Sunday before last I couldn’t help but notice the emphasis on priesthood and reverence for the young men.

Yesterday, my oldest didn’t feel well so we stayed home. My husband and youngest went since he had to teach a primary lesson.

When he got home he said how he missed me being there with him. Unfortunately, I couldn’t say the same—in fact, I felt so much better staying home and not attending or zooming in.

The irony is that when I was the religious stalwart he didn’t really care or go often and now that I could easily walk away from church he suddenly is trying to go and keep me in. In the past I wanted him to hold the priesthood and be sealed as a family, but now that last place I want to go is inside a temple.

[Red Ryder]

Congrats. I took a break when Covid started and extended it even after the ward went back. I’ve been a few times and it always renews my need to take a break feelings.

I’m offended by the “Second Saturday” label.

It’s not really supposed to feel like a second Saturday. I work and play hard on Saturday. It’s supposed to be a day of rest. Without church it’s become a really great relaxing day.

So I suggest replacing “second Saturday” with…

A really nice Sunday!

It just feels really nice to have no thoughts about religion, meetings, and chores.

[Hagoth]

When he got home he said how he missed me being there with him. Unfortunately, I couldn’t say the same—in fact, I felt so much better staying home and not attending or zooming in.

Is there anyway you could express this to him that wouldn't cause a magnitude 7 aftershock?

[Hagoth]

So I suggest replacing “second Saturday” with…

A really nice Sunday!

How about My Sunday, as in you go have your Sunday the way it works best for you. I'll have My Sunday.

[Red Ryder]

So I suggest replacing “second Saturday” with…

A really nice Sunday!

How about My Sunday, as in you go have your Sunday the way it works best for you. I'll have My Sunday.

I like that!

[hallew]

When he got home he said how he missed me being there with him. Unfortunately, I couldn’t say the same—in fact, I felt so much better staying home and not attending or zooming in.

Is there anyway you could express this to him that wouldn't cause a magnitude 7 aftershock?

As far as I am aware he doesn't believe in the lds church. However, he believes that going to church makes you a better person. Since he grew up Mormon and likes Mormons, then why not throw your lot in with them. He has also hinted that he fears if I completely stop going that I may fill the void with something else that is harmful. He also thinks that I obsess to much about the negativity of church. I don't think he realizes how broken the church has made me. I believe that trauma from my childhood that was helped by believing in families can be together forever was completely refractured when I learned about D&C 132, the history of polygamy, and possibilities of a polygamous afterlife. I don't think there would be an aftershock, but it would have hurt his feelings. I know at some point I will stop attending. He has expressed that he will support me if I do eventually leave.

[alas]

When he got home he said how he missed me being there with him. Unfortunately, I couldn’t say the same—in fact, I felt so much better staying home and not attending or zooming in.

Is there anyway you could express this to him that wouldn't cause a magnitude 7 aftershock?

As far as I am aware he doesn't believe in the lds church. However, he believes that going to church makes you a better person. Since he grew up Mormon and likes Mormons, then why not throw your lot in with them. He has also hinted that he fears if I completely stop going that I may fill the void with something else that is harmful. He also thinks that I obsess to much about the negativity of church. I don't think he realizes how broken the church has made me. I believe that trauma from my childhood that was helped by believing in families can be together forever was completely refractured when I learned about D&C 132, the history of polygamy, and possibilities of a polygamous afterlife. I don't think there would be an aftershock, but it would have hurt his feelings. I know at some point I will stop attending. He has expressed that he will support me if I do eventually leave.

I don’t think most men have any concept of what church is really like for girls and women. They experience a very different church. They don’t get chewed gum, mangled flowers, smashed cake lessons, that strongly imply that even if you were forced into sex, you are still damaged beyond repair and even God doesn’t want you. They don’t get lessons on chastity or temple marriage or honor you mean big brother because HE has priesthood while you never will at YW while the boys have fun playing basketball. They get to go camping for the week you get to stay home canning peaches because a big family has to be fed, and their camping is paid for by the ward while your girls camp comes out of the babysitting money you need for school lunch and shoes.

And after all that crap growing up, you find out in the temple that you are not really a child of God, but some kind of daughter in law and God gives all his priesthood, blessings, love to your husband and you get nothing from God. You will be a priestess, queen, wife, subject, slave to your husband and forever under him, most likely in a harem….

Anyway, I know you understand how broken the church makes women and how abusive and traumatic it is to be nothing to God.

I still have nightmares about church, not my abusive parents, but the church was the biggest trauma of my life because it abused me after and worse and on top of all my parents did to me.

[alas]

And as I was dumping on my husband on the drive home (I think that's his favorite part of the Sabbath) I realized that the cognitive dissonance is causing me SEVERE emotional distress.

I used to dump on my husband on the way home from church. It was often things he never even heard because he was playing games on his cell phone or playing peek-a-boo with the toddler in front of us. He protected himself from boredom, stupidity, and fabrications about how wonderful of a marriage Adam and Eve had by staying mentally disengaged. Once I discovered that he never listened to a word that was said, so he didn’t get upset, I decided why am I bothering to get dressed up and go to church if I have to play on my cell phone to protect myself from cognitive dissonance?

I feel like, every time I attend church, a piece of me dies. Sometimes it's really a tiny piece (the closing speaker in SM always has to be a man), sometimes it's a large piece (paying tithing helps you to be a successful Mary Kay seller), but it's every. single. week. And I can't just keep chipping off pieces of myself like this. I'm running out.

You will be so much happier staying away. I really enjoy my quiet Sundays when he is away at church.

[Hagoth]

I don’t think most men have any concept of what church is really like for girls and women. They experience a very different church. They don’t get chewed gum, mangled flowers, smashed cake lessons, that strongly imply that even if you were forced into sex, you are still damaged beyond repair and even God doesn’t want you. They don’t get lessons on chastity or temple marriage or honor you mean big brother because HE has priesthood while you never will at YW while the boys have fun playing basketball. They get to go camping for the week you get to stay home canning peaches because a big family has to be fed, and their camping is paid for by the ward while your girls camp comes out of the babysitting money you need for school lunch and shoes.

I'm sorry about the length of this response, I know I've said most of this stuff before, , but it' a message that people need to hear.

Everything you say is true, Alas, but I don't think it's as wonderful for all of the boys as it sounds. Better than for girls in many ways, absolutely, especially if you're the right kind of guy who can shrug off the constant barrage of shaming and somehow convince yourself that you are living up to the myth of being one of the generals in the War in Heaven, and all of the other priesthood BS they feed you. Some kids, when they are told they have more power in their little finger than the Pope has in his entire being feel nothing but overwhelming inadequacy. I had the power to do anything as long as I remained 100% pure in thought and deed at all times, otherwise I wouldn't be able to do the magic trick to heal someone or even bring them back from the dead if necessary, and their death and suffering would be because of my unworthiness*. Yes, they actually teach you that. If I broke the sacrament bread unworthily (which included pretty much everything a teenage boy might think or do) I polluted my entire ward and damaged their salvation. Sensitive, thoughtful boys take that sh*t seriously. They think they will never be worthy of a Daughter of God, because they know they will never live up to priesthood expectations. It is absolutely crushing for some kids, and it paints every aspect of your life with self-loathing.

The LDS church can be a wonderful ego parade for boys and men who are easily convinced of their superiority, and who have a desire to rule over their wives and play spiritual alpha dog over their neighbors, but it can be a nonstop meat grinder for others.

One General Priesthood talk that really messed me up was by Vaughn J. Featherstone, my future mission president. He tells the story of a father whose child died and he brought her back to life with a priesthood blessing, which was possible only because he was 100% pure and constantly filled with the spirit. Featherstone said that if that father had been guilty of masturbation in the past his child would have died, and it would have been his fault. Of course, now I know that story is not true, but at the time it became a hammer constantly whacking me on the head for the next few decades. This idea came up in elders quorum once and I raised my hand and said, "what do you you do when you are asked to heal someone with a blessing but you don't feel as worthy as you think you should be?" I was pounced on pretty viscously and told that there is no excuse for not being 100% worthy 100% of the time, that even thinking in those terms was shirking my priesthood duty. How could I know that the Elders Quorum president who said that was on the verge of a nasty divorce because his wife caught him looking at porn and couldn't tolerate having a man in her home who was not worthy of her.

So people ask you to give blessings. You do. They don't get better. You know it should have worked if you had been a sufficiently worthy and faithful priesthood holder.

See, they also teach the girls that message, along with the licked cupcake garbage. Men are not only expected by the church to be perfect, they are expected by potential future spouses to be perfect. What? you saw a Playboy magazine when you were 13? You smoked a cigarette when you were 12? God forbid you didn't serve a mission or came home early. What worthy woman would touch you with a 10-foot pole? Of course, all of this only exists in a fantasy world, and only if you believe it. But many do.

So the boys and men who take the priesthood crap the most seriously are often the ones who are most damaged by it.

[Red Ryder]

The guilt was debilitating at times. I never could understand my body’s response to walking into a Mormon church as a youth and even sometimes as an adult. It wasn’t until I was sitting with Stig having lunch and we got talking about the physiological response and he mentioned PTSD. Years of guilt about worthiness can really mess up a guy.

The other pressure I feel is that of having to be a good provider and in our case a single income family because mom’s need to stay at home. It’s worked for us but sometimes the pressure is overwhelming. I’m sure people relate even with both partners working full time so I don’t blame church culture 100% for this. However it did originate within my life due to Mormonism.

I guess Mormonism really messes up both men and women in different ways and at different levels. I only wish I had seen all this in my early 20’s.

[Hagoth]

I never could understand my body’s response to walking into a Mormon church as a youth and even sometimes as an adult.

It wasn't until after my disaffection that I understood why I got pounding headaches every Sunday during sacrament meeting. I would zip home, pop a couple of Advil, and dash back for Sunday school. Of course, I interpreted it as some sort of spiritual weakness on my part. I would surely do better next week, otherwise I would have kept Advil in my church pants pocket! I think deep down I knew I just had to get out of church for a few minutes.