DW wearing garments again?

[stealthbishop]

My DW told me recently that she had been considering and maybe still is considering wearing garments again. They had a lot of meaning for her. We have been without them for maybe 5-6 months and it has been amazing. I am SO happy about it. But hearing this sunk my spirit. I told her of course that I would support whatever was best for her in her spiritual journey but it was hard. I don't think it will happen but I felt enormous grief at the possibility. Now having a taste of life without them, to have her go back to it, would be really hard for me. I certainly have expressed that to her. But we'll see what happens. I know I am also more fortunate than many on the board who would probably really like to be in my position.

[Linked]

That's gotta be hard. Of course the only thing you can and should do is support her like you said, but it must still hurt.

I think it might be similar to last year with no in-person church. It was awesome. The free time to do whatever we felt was best with our time was nice. Not hearing a bunch of stuff that is objectively false and subjectively harmful all the time was nice. Not having a regular reminder of the gulf between me and my DW was nice. We went months without having to actively give each other space to exist. Then it all came back and it sucked.

Hang in there!

[Red Ryder]

Sorry Stealth. Here’s a few ideas off the top of my head.

1. Compromise. She wears hers Mon - Thur. You wear hers Friday - Sunday.

2. She could color them Pink

3. She could cut them down to normal patterns.

4. Wear the Top or bottom. Not both

5. Spend a week in Houston for a hot and humid vacation. Leave them at the hotel.

6. Fabricate a fake letter from the FP stating Mormons no longer wear the garment. Policy change and not doctrinal change.

7. Decide that if she’s going to wear polygamy panties, then it’s only fair for you to have a few sister wives. Starting taking applications.

8. Start wearing yours too!

9. Don’t worry about it. It’s her choice.

10. Take her on a shopping spree to EVERY Victoria secrets, JC Penny, and Target lingerie department this side of the Mississippi ! Take out a second mortgage if you need extra cash, lace and guilt free underwear is expensive!

11. Join a nudist colony.

[stealthbishop]

That's gotta be hard. Of course the only thing you can and should do is support her like you said, but it must still hurt.

I think it might be similar to last year with no in-person church. It was awesome. The free time to do whatever we felt was best with our time was nice. Not hearing a bunch of stuff that is objectively false and subjectively harmful all the time was nice. Not having a regular reminder of the gulf between me and my DW was nice. We went months without having to actively give each other space to exist. Then it all came back and it sucked.

Hang in there!

Good example. Thank you! You too Linked!

[stealthbishop]

Sorry Stealth. Here’s a few ideas off the top of my head.

1. Compromise. She wears hers Mon - Thur. You wear hers Friday - Sunday.

2. She could color them Pink

3. She could cut them down to normal patterns.

4. Wear the Top or bottom. Not both

5. Spend a week in Houston for a hot and humid vacation. Leave them at the hotel.

6. Fabricate a fake letter from the FP stating Mormons no longer wear the garment. Policy change and not doctrinal change.

7. Decide that if she’s going to wear polygamy panties, then it’s only fair for you to have a few sister wives. Starting taking applications.

8. Start wearing yours too!

9. Don’t worry about it. It’s her choice.

10. Take her on a shopping spree to EVERY Victoria secrets, JC Penny, and Target lingerie department this side of the Mississippi ! Take out a second mortgage if you need extra cash, lace and guilt free underwear is expensive!

11. Join a nudist colony.

Some of these made me smile and some made me laugh! But also some good advice too. Thanks RR!

[wtfluff]

Stealth, does your wife know why Joseph originally invented "garments?"

[stealthbishop]

Stealth, does your wife know why Joseph originally invented "garments?"

I assume she does. She finds meaning in the garment I THINK regardless of the origin. I think she doesn't like the control about it. She has become very against external authority and she doesn't see the need for a priesthood hierarchy between her and God. Nevertheless she finds meaning in the temple and the garment regardless of how it was created or that Joseph invented it. Hopefully, I'm capturing her beliefs accurately.

[Red Ryder]

Stealth, does your wife know why Joseph originally invented "garments?"

I assume she does. She finds meaning in the garment I THINK regardless of the origin. I think she doesn't like the control about it. She has become very against external authority and she doesn't see the need for a priesthood hierarchy between her and God. Nevertheless she finds meaning in the temple and the garment regardless of how it was created or that Joseph invented it. Hopefully, I'm capturing her beliefs accurately.

I respect that.

I also wonder how much the physical nature of garments plays a role in our minds. After years of wearing garments our bodies get used to the inherent annoyances. Too warm. Too itchy. Too constricting. Too baggy. However they affect you physically, right?

Then once you remove and stop wearing them, the mind starts to notice the subtle differences. Perhaps in breathability. Perhaps in temperature. You feel every difference which at first is uncomfortable and annoying. For some people it takes time to adjust to less layers. For others you can’t find the relief enjoyable because it’s a different feeling.

For some, garments are comfortable and familiar. Then tie in the emotional connection to an eternal family perspective or eternal marriage. Removing garments may feel like you’re breaking your wedding covenants. Betraying God. Disappointment. Making your mother cry.

Its a real mind game.

I actually tried to put mine back on one time and got really anxious. To the point of feeling like an oncoming panic attack. In my mind, I felt oppressed and shackled to the church. It was a strange experience.

Strange indeed.

[wtfluff]

Stealth, does your wife know why Joseph originally invented "garments?"

I assume she does. She finds meaning in the garment I THINK regardless of the origin. I think she doesn't like the control about it. She has become very against external authority and she doesn't see the need for a priesthood hierarchy between her and God. Nevertheless she finds meaning in the temple and the garment regardless of how it was created or that Joseph invented it. Hopefully, I'm capturing her beliefs accurately.

I respect that.

I also wonder how much the physical nature of garments plays a role in our minds. After years of wearing garments our bodies get used to the inherent annoyances. Too warm. Too itchy. Too constricting. Too baggy. However they affect you physically, right?

Then once you remove and stop wearing them, the mind starts to notice the subtle differences. Perhaps in breathability. Perhaps in temperature. You feel every difference which at first is uncomfortable and annoying. For some people it takes time to adjust to less layers. For others you can’t find the relief enjoyable because it’s a different feeling.

For some, garments are comfortable and familiar. Then tie in the emotional connection to an eternal family perspective or eternal marriage. Removing garments may feel like you’re breaking your wedding covenants. Betraying God. Disappointment. Making your mother cry.

Its a real mind game.

I actually tried to put mine back on one time and got really anxious. To the point of feeling like an oncoming panic attack. In my mind, I felt oppressed and shackled to the church. It was a strange experience.

Strange indeed.

After the Stealth and Rubin comments, I can also see something else that might be involved: Sacrifice. I truly don't get the idea that we have to spend our whole lives "sacrificing" any more, but I can see someone who's somewhat still on the believing side can think that "sacrifice" is a good thing, and the Polygamy Pantaloons are truly a sacrifice.

I also truly don't understand how anyone can get meaning out of the endowment or garments when both were literally invented (and/or plagiarized) by Joseph just to try and protect his original secret "polygamy club."

Someone explain to me again how a frontier sex cult morphed into the sick, repressed version of Corporate MORmONism that we have today?

[Red Ryder]

Someone explain to me again how a frontier sex cult morphed into the sick, repressed version of Corporate MORmONism that we have today?

I think isolation removed the persecution.
In the absence of persecution, the system needed a new enemy. But where can you find a new enemy in Utah? Look no further then in your own congregation.

The spiritually weak
The faithless
The world and trappings of it.
The doubter
The unbeliever
The horny teenager
The need for power and ego
The prophet

Follow the prophet. He knows the way.

[1smartdodog]

My wife has never taken them off completely. She made a concession to generally not sleep in them but wears them under her clothes. For her I think it is not a spiritual or obedience thing as much as what she is use to. She likes the feel of being covered.

Personally I despise them. Both from appearance and the bondage they represent. I would burn every pair she owned, but i try very hard to give her the support to be the person she needs to be.

It is hard at times. I just want to tell her they are the ugliest and most depressing thing she can wear in front of me. But I am venting, I could never hurt her like that.


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[dogbite]

I bet it doesn't last. I suspect she'll leave them again.

[stealthbishop]

I bet it doesn't last. I suspect she'll leave them again.

This is my hope. So far she hasn't put them back on.

[stealthbishop]

My wife has never taken them off completely. She made a concession to generally not sleep in them but wears them under her clothes. For her I think it is not a spiritual or obedience thing as much as what she is use to. She likes the feel of being covered.

Personally I despise them. Both from appearance and the bondage they represent. I would burn every pair she owned, but i try very hard to give her the support to be the person she needs to be.

It is hard at times. I just want to tell her they are the ugliest and most depressing thing she can wear in front of me. But I am venting, I could never hurt her like that.


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I have very similar feelings. I understand human rituals and that we are not the only tribe that has ritual clothing but I think they are ugly and also depressing. I see them as a barrier to intimacy. I get how other people see them differently and I understand that but for me they make me sad. Like you, I want to be measured in what I say. I don't want to come across that I am trying to control what she wears (like the church). That's a great concession your wife made. I would have been so happy in our marriage if mine had at least done that. Previously, even asking her to not wear them for a night was met with major push back. But then things radically changed for the better. I just hope they don't go back.

[Just This Guy]

My wife has never taken them off completely. She made a concession to generally not sleep in them but wears them under her clothes. For her I think it is not a spiritual or obedience thing as much as what she is use to. She likes the feel of being covered.

Personally I despise them. Both from appearance and the bondage they represent. I would burn every pair she owned, but i try very hard to give her the support to be the person she needs to be.

It is hard at times. I just want to tell her they are the ugliest and most depressing thing she can wear in front of me. But I am venting, I could never hurt her like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it is just about the feeling of being covered, then you could conduct an experiment with her. Visit your local Walmart or Target and look at what they have in women's undershirts/tank tops/camisoles. You can get boxer shorts as well. Get a few different ones and ask her to wear each one for one day and see how she feels compared to garments. If she feels the same about it, then you can substitute them for the garments.

My wife is the same way. When she stopped wearing garments, she still wore commercially available equivalents. The store bought ones fit better and lasted longer. Over the last few years they have shrunk to tank tops and camisoles, but she still wears them most days. It took my wife several years before she was comfortable wearing a tank top in public.