Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
Vlad the Emailer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:38 pm
In an effort to show me the true way, my TBM sister wrote an email to the church (customer service? Whatever it was called) and they responded with denial about people becoming Gods. In my email to sis, which she forwarded intact to the church, I quoted three profits, Brigham Young, Spencer Kimball, and IIRC, Joseph F. Smith was the third, each making specific remarks about becoming Gods. LDS customer service responded that "just because 2 or 20 Mormons believe something doesn't make it doctrine". To this day I wish I had responded to that official idiot and copied my sister instead of just responding to her. It's called the law of eternal progression. Or at least it was, anyway. Lying for the Lord indeed.
WTF!
You are serious!?.....
This is like doctrinal changes under the covers. I'm blown away! Its in the D&C about becoming GODS!
OK...I read about this in a different forum, but didn't know its details until now.
This use to be in the temple ceremony, and was an "Oath of Vengence"...
Some oaths have been removed. The oath of vengeance (dropped in1927) involved LDS commitment to punish the United States for the killing of Joseph and his brother Hyrum. Endowment participants were told: “You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children’s children unto the third and fourth generation.” The oath received scrutiny when Mormon Apostle Reed Smoot was elected to the US Senate in 1903.
Beverley, James A. Mormon Crises: Anatomy of a Failing Religion (Kindle Locations 1759-1763). Castle Quay Books. Kindle Edition.
In the 1920s LDS leaders also urged the removal of graphic language related to penalties if one revealed the secrets of the two priesthoods. Here is the oath related to the first priesthood as it would have been said in the early 1920s: “We, and each of us, covenant and promise that we will not reveal any of the secrets of this, the first token of the Aaronic priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign or penalty. Should we do so; we agree that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by their roots.” Sometime after 1931 the harsh wording was removed though hand signs were used to indicate the penalties. Through most of the twentieth century participants vowed never to reveal the secrets and stated: “Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken.” After 1990 even this wording was taken out. 15
Beverley, James A. Mormon Crises: Anatomy of a Failing Religion (Kindle Locations 1763-1769). Castle Quay Books. Kindle Edition.
Vlad the Emailer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:38 pm
In an effort to show me the true way, my TBM sister wrote an email to the church (customer service? Whatever it was called) and they responded with denial about people becoming Gods. In my email to sis, which she forwarded intact to the church, I quoted three profits, Brigham Young, Spencer Kimball, and IIRC, Joseph F. Smith was the third, each making specific remarks about becoming Gods. LDS customer service responded that "just because 2 or 20 Mormons believe something doesn't make it doctrine". To this day I wish I had responded to that official idiot and copied my sister instead of just responding to her. It's called the law of eternal progression. Or at least it was, anyway. Lying for the Lord indeed.
WTF!
You are serious!?.....
This is like doctrinal changes under the covers. I'm blown away! Its in the D&C about becoming GODS!
It was a few years ago and was fallout from the "get your own planet" thing from the BOM musical. Because they desperately want to deny that they have to deny the making worlds without end thing because they can't deny that the two are the same with just a little difference in semantics.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest. - Anonymous
Say what you want about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying. - Kurt Vonnegut
This is what kills me. Why can't they just come out and say "Our bad, that was wrong, here is our doctrine. THe first 200 years had it's ups and downs, but going forward these are the things that will guide us.
Oaks - just say you're sorry and most will forgive you.
Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:00 pm
This is what kills me. Why can't they just come out and say "Our bad, that was wrong, here is our doctrine. THe first 200 years had it's ups and downs, but going forward these are the things that will guide us.
Oaks - just say you're sorry and most will forgive you.
Ha... No Apologies! NEVER!!! (Ok, that might not be a direct Oaks quote...)
They can't ever admit they were wrong. Neither can they say "going forward these are the things that will guide us" because "these things" will change sooner or later. (Especially after either the CEO, or one of the Board of Directors dies.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus
I finished the book. It isn't the greatest read....I'm gunna say that. I've read other things that shed more light. But, it was recommended and an easy read, so I ventured.
The next one I think is Fawn Brodie's book. I've also got one on Mormonism and Masons. That may be rather interesting,......
