Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
foolmeonce wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:27 pmYou older dudes had to work through much heavier stuff in there than us whipper snappers. I had a pretty hard time with chanting prayers, semi-naked oil applications, and weird uniforms. I don't know how I would have handled throat cutting charades. Maybe I would have questioned more (probably not).
Yeah, it's amazing what you can compartmentalize and justify in the face of community and familial pressure. I do remember thinking something about "Gadianton Robbers" when we were making all those secret-combination-like pacts, but I just trusted that the church knew what it was doing and this was a "righteous secret combination," not an evil one.
foolmeonce wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:27 pm
You older dudes had to work through much heavier stuff in there than us whipper snappers. I had a pretty hard time with chanting prayers, semi-naked oil applications, and weird uniforms. I don't know how I would have handled throat cutting charades. Maybe I would have questioned more (probably not).
I have never heard of anyone who actually walked out of their first experiences in the temple even with the suicide pantomime and that stupid poncho over your naked, oiled body. The social pressure is immense to simply go along with the new alien weirdness being foisted upon you. Keep in mind the most common two events happening when someone goes through the temple for the first time:
Mission
Marriage
In both cases there is a supremely important event is about to take place that involved family flying in from around the country, a ton of inclement expenses, and other people involved who would be mortified over any delay due to your irrelevant feelings about this alien ritual. Would a young bride be able to face her faithful groom and tell him that the wedding is delayed due to this ceremony? Would a fresh faced high school graduate tell his parents that he is postponing his mission call because this ceremony freaked him out sufficiently? There probably are a few people who felt this way. But the overwhelming majority simply put it out of their minds in favor of the looming date for marriage and mission.
Suppose instead that Mormons went through the temple as a natural progression of the spiritual lives unconnected from a mission or marriage. Suppose that this devotion was not tied to a critical, scheduled life event. If so, it would be a lot easier to walk out of a ceremony that you did not feel comfortable doing. Vanishingly few Mormons participate in their own endowments this way.
These closest time this might happen is with adult converts. Converts are welcome to do temple baptisms right after their own baptism. This is a comfortable, warm experience where they repeatedly experience the kind words and promises of the baptism and confirmation prayers. The endowment drama with the funny hats and robes is put off in the future when presumably the conversion is complete and they won't suddenly realize that that they just might have joined a cult.
Phil Lurkerman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:02 pmmy first experience was with a live action, all scary penalties included, early-morning performance.
At least with the live performances, there was always the chance that someone would flub up their "lines" or do something else out of the ordinary and the "audience" could get a chuckle out of whatever went wrong; Especially if the flub was funny enough for "satan" to start giggling.
The movies? Y A W N . . .
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus
Phil Lurkerman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:02 pmYup. All the same issues with not understanding the weird stuff, but more than anything I was expecting a supernatural experience and it was just a bunch of really old people acting out some sort of semi-biblical allegory. I'm getting old now myself, so yes my first experience was with a live action, all scary penalties included, early-morning performance.
With all the high-security, hush-hush, promise-never-to-reveal build up to the whole thing, I assumed there must be angels officiating, three Nephites making guest appearances, clear explanations of the nature of creation - or at least something to justify all the secrecy. Nope.
But I went on my mission anyway.
Same and same.
Salt Lake temple 1982.
Sure wish I had that mission decision to live over again. No wonder you don't go do the temple crap first, THEN send in your papers. They wait, at least they did then, until you're practically checking into the MTC for you to experience the joy. Corsair put it best, the marriage or mission approach keeps us hooked because there is so much to lose/mess up if we stop and take an honest inventory of the temple experience.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest. - Anonymous
Say what you want about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying. - Kurt Vonnegut
Maybe my lack of spiritual experiences are because of my sins as a youth. When I was 13 or 14 I got up at 4 am for a youth temple trip. Marvin Gaye's Sexual Healing was playing on the radio when the alarm went off and the song was stuck in my head all day. To this day, the song and youth temple trips are forever linked in my mind.
“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” Winston Churchill
Can of Worms wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:02 pm
Maybe my lack of spiritual experiences are because of my sins as a youth. When I was 13 or 14 I got up at 4 am for a youth temple trip. Marvin Gaye's Sexual Healing was playing on the radio when the alarm went off and the song was stuck in my head all day. To this day, the song and youth temple trips are forever linked in my mind.
Can of Worms wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:02 pm
Maybe my lack of spiritual experiences are because of my sins as a youth. When I was 13 or 14 I got up at 4 am for a youth temple trip. Marvin Gaye's Sexual Healing was playing on the radio when the alarm went off and the song was stuck in my head all day. To this day, the song and youth temple trips are forever linked in my mind.
This is funny. I'm sorry it happened, but in hind site I am also chuckling. Its pure irony....
when I was 14, a mean boy in our neighborhood was interviewed and "found worthy" to be advanced in the priesthood. During the blessing, he opened his eyes, looked at me with a sneer on his face, and lifted his middle finger.
I can never associate ordinances without seeing that image in my mind. How that kid was "found worthy" was kindof like a beginning of the shelf cracking when I was 14 years old.
Can of Worms wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:02 pm
Maybe my lack of spiritual experiences are because of my sins as a youth. When I was 13 or 14 I got up at 4 am for a youth temple trip. Marvin Gaye's Sexual Healing was playing on the radio when the alarm went off and the song was stuck in my head all day. To this day, the song and youth temple trips are forever linked in my mind.
This is funny. I'm sorry it happened, but in hind site I am also chuckling. Its pure irony....
when I was 14, a mean boy in our neighborhood was interviewed and "found worthy" to be advanced in the priesthood. During the blessing, he opened his eyes, looked at me with a sneer on his face, and lifted his middle finger.
I can never associate ordinances without seeing that image in my mind. How that kid was "found worthy" was kindof like a beginning of the shelf cracking when I was 14 years old.
Wouldn't it be funny if that kid if that kid is now on NOM?
Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?
Morpheus: No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.
