Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

[A New Name]

Nobody answered Red Ryders question. What are Midnight Mormons? Are they TBM? DezNat? Poly? Why do we care?

[wtfluff]

Nobody answered Red Ryders question. What are Midnight Mormons? Are they TBM? DezNat? Poly? Why do we care?

I believe these Midnight MORmONs are the evolution of Kwaku El and his buddies YouTube exploits. Kwaku started at "3 MORmONs" which was sponsored by BYU? Then Kwaku moved on to This Is The Show (TITS) which was sponsored by FairMORmON? (I don't know what those Fair MORmONs call themselves any more.) Now Kwaku has moved on to Midnight MORmONs. I sure hope they don't actually stay out past midnight. with Holy the Spook running away and hiding at the stroke of 00:00:00.

[moksha]

Nobody answered Red Ryder's question. What are Midnight Mormons? Are they TBM? DezNat? Poly? Why do we care?

Midnight Mormons are an attack group funded by covert Church sources. Its purpose is to attack Church critics with ad hominem accusations. Midnight Mormons are the result of draining religion and restraint out of regular apologetics.

[hmb]

Nobody answered Red Ryder's question. What are Midnight Mormons? Are they TBM? DezNat? Poly? Why do we care?

Midnight Mormons are an attack group funded by covert Church sources. Its purpose is to attack Church critics with ad hominem accusations. Midnight Mormons are the result of draining religion and restraint out of regular apologetics.

Are they friends of the general church? Are they temple worthy? Would Midnight Mormons be an answer to the question, "Who's on the Lord's Side Who?"

[Hagoth]

Would Midnight Mormons be an answer to the question, "Who's on the Lord's Side Who?"

From what I have seen. their answer to anyone not wearing their garments on the outside would always be, "well not you, that's for sure!" Followed by the roasting of red herrings over a burning strawman in the form of an ad-hominem effigy.

I think what is most painful about listening to these guys is that they seem to think that if you say something in a tone of voice that sounds like you think you're saying something clever and funny, that actually makes it clever and funny. Nope. It usually just comes across as snarky and juvenile.

When I talked to a couple of the FAIR guys about the TITS videos they were gushing about how amazing they were and how they were going to bring young people streaming back into the church. But didn't they stop funding them?

[MoPag]

Does Rusty know they are calling themselves the Midnight Mormons? Shouldn't they be called Midnight Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

I dunno. I've only heard clips of them and they seem very problematic. They are, at their core, very insecure. They will do/say anything to prop up the system that makes them feel special and better than everyone else.

[2bizE]

Where can we purchase tickets? Or will it be like GC where you have to get tickets through your bishop or SP?

[Reuben]

I dunno. I've only heard clips of them and they seem very problematic. They are, at their core, very insecure. They will do/say anything to prop up the system that makes them feel special and better than everyone else.

This strikes me as kinda what the church makes everyone into. But maybe the big difference for the rank and file is that the "special" and "better" adjectives apply to the organization instead of the individual, and they get to bask in its reflected glory.

[2bizE]

Potential Debate Question:

If a train is traveling at 90 mph from Nauvoo, and another train is traveling at 30 mph from Kirtland, how long will it take for Joseph Smith to marry another man’s wife that was just sent on an overseas mission?

I believe the correct answer is Cincinnati.

[Palerider]

These guys sound like self-appointed, modern day versions of the Danites. They just don't have contact with upper echelons of the church or the guts to actually kill the opposition. The best these weenies can do is try to make fun of you. Their parents should be proud.

[jfro18]

These guys sound like self-appointed, modern day versions of the Danites. They just don't have contact with upper echelons of the church or the guts to actually kill the opposition. The best these weenies can do is try to make fun of you. Their parents should be proud.

That sums it up pretty well. I haven't listened to much of them, but I did listen to an hour of an interview they did with Jonathan Streeter which was actually a worthwhile listen because it forced them to address some of the issues they usually mock... but usually they just attack the people saying it and work with a lot of strawman arguments.

The TITS videos really are how they function in their other videos as well.

[Hagoth]

...I did listen to an hour of an interview they did with Jonathan Streeter...

Got a link to that?

[jfro18]

Got a link to that?

I haven't listened to part two, but here is part one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRah0g2UD7w

[Palerider]

In some related research I happened upon a blog that is founded by an organization called, of all things, The Midnight Freemasons.

Is this just a coincidence?

I know some LDS guys are Masons but don't have time to research whether any of RFM's opponents are of that order.

[blazerb]

Why are Kwaku and friends even contemplating this? They must know that RFM knows more than they do. He knows how to present information better than they do. He knows how to point out logical errors better than they do. They have no hope.

Besides that, where are the prophets and apostles leaving these kids (I know they're adults, but they are very young for their age.) to do the job that they should be taking on? I guess if Kwaku confounds RFM, I'll have to haul my butt back to church. God will have given his sign. Somehow, I'm not worried about that possibility. However, God calls his servants to destroy their craft, as the BoM puts it. But you won't see an apostle anywhere near RFM to try to stop him. The church members should realize that the existence of Midnight Mormons, FAIR, the Interpreter Foundation, etc. is strong evidence that there is no power in the Q15. They know that God won't give them the answers in the very moment. They can only function in scripted events with friendly crowds. They have to leave the confrontation to unofficial groups that can be disavowed.

[Hagoth]

Why are Kwaku and friends even contemplating this? They must know that RFM knows more than they do. He knows how to present information better than they do. He knows how to point out logical errors better than they do. They have no hope.

I imagine it's because they are planning on a circus, not a debate.

[nibbler]

Being completely unfamiliar with Midnight Mormons I watched most of the video linked on this page. That one guy kept going back to "wokeism" and he kept using the term as a pejorative. No real specifics, just woke, as if that alone was enough to communicate a point and win an argument. I see that sort of thing coming from ultra right-wing politicos all the time. It makes me wonder if the guy can separate ultra right-wing conservatism in the USA from Jesus' teachings.

I'd rather he get into specifics because 99% of the time I didn't even know what he meant by "wokeism," I just knew that he had a very low opinion of it.

He also employs a tactic used in Alma v. Korihor, where Alma projects a motivation onto Korihor and wins the debate by attacking the strawman motivation. As if Alma knows Korihor's motivations better than Korihor himself knows his own motivations. This is nothing new in apologetics. Apologists often dodge questions by attacking a projected motivation behind the question.

"You're not asking that question because you honestly have that question, you're only asking it as a veiled attack on the church."
"You don't really care about LGBT+ people, you're just feigning concern so you can use them as an angle of attack on the church."

Yes, that's true with some people but:

1. So what, answer the question.
2. So what, quit defending policies that harm LGBT+.
3. I'd say the overwhelming majority of the time the questions are very genuine. People start their faith crisis in desperation mode, trying to latch onto anything that could be a hint of a whiff of an answer. The questions are a cry for help. Imagine the reaction of a person that's desperate for answers when their questions are met with accusations.
4. Believe it or not, people really do care about the LGBT+ community and have deep empathy for them.
5. You're not accurately describing people's motivations, you're projecting your own motivations onto them. In essence, you're saying: "If I were to ask that question, this is the reason why I'd ask it." or "I'd use the LGBT+ community as leverage." It's projection.

In the thread someone asked why Midnight Mormons would debate RFM but I'm left wondering why RFM would debate Midnight Mormons. I don't think anything would come out of it other than more angry accusations.

[slavereeno]

Nobody answered Red Ryders question. What are Midnight Mormons? Are they TBM? DezNat? Poly? Why do we care?

Midnight Mormons is an ongoing experiment that is attempting to see how long a human being can live with their head submerged in their own rectal cavity.

[moksha]

I hope some NOM participants can be on hand as boosters for RFM in this debate. It should be intellectually stimulating and Kwaku might even bring some dance music for later and I'm guessing that Hagoth has some moves. Shawn McRaney said they are providing refreshments.

[Hagoth]

...and Kwaku might even bring some dance music...

And maybe some COVID!
I don't know if I can make it, but do you have any details about tickets or entrance rituals, Moksha? I don't know much about McCraney and his church, but I looked it up on a church finder website and saw that they offer two Sunday services: the Milk Session and the Meat Session. Gotta love that.