Dr. Prophet Finally Speaks

[Cnsl1]

"

[Cnsl1]

I'm hearing these kinds of words from conservative Mormon associates :

"He just said 'urged'; we still have our free agency."

"This is not a commandment."

"He is speaking to the weakest of the Saints."

People will hear what they want to hear. All of us.

I'm wondering about the "we know the only way to stop this is if a significant portion of the population is immune. " Fasting and prayer sure doesn't work.

Kudos to church leaders for taking a stand. Feels more like a corporate decision, though, and certainly comes late in the process, which makes it feel more reactionary than inspired. But still... let's take the win...

[shrugged]

Will they be reading the statement from the pulpit tomorrow in church?


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[hmb]

It just really bugs me how Covid "safety" is stake by stake. On Reddit, some talk about their wards/stakes no longer offering Zoom church and masks/vaccines are frowned on. Others stopped offering Zoom and say it's individual choice. My Stake has sent out a letter stressing the importance of the prophet's words and to get the vaccine. They will still have in church and Zoom meetings offered. They request, but do not require masks. It's all over the place. This would seem like a good time to get real direction from the prophet, since he can commune with God, and does so for the entire church (as well as the world). After all, it isn't like the consequence of an individual's choice only affects their own self. The wishy-washiness is no different than the world's views, which are all over the place. A true church, with living prophets, would be able to give definitive guidance and stress that free agency isn't without consequence. You can choose to abide by these health guidelines or stay home. Those who proclaim some excuse for not following the guidance cause some members, who fear for their unvaccinated kids, to stay home. It's just backward. Fearing membership loss is not a good reason to let local leadership decide what is and isn't safe.

[MoPag]

FIL said yesterday...”Guess I better go find a vaxx appointment!”

Like dude, we’ve been telling you this since March with no effect. Now that the prophet suggests it “I better go soon....”

I really really hope Rusty and Pals' embarrassingly late plea will convince as many members as possible to get vaccinated. I read through some of the comments on the church's FB pages and I saw several people, like your FIL, who are finally going to get vaccinated. Thank the Goddess because the Delta variant is kicking our a$$es. My hospital has been above capacity for weeks. And it's just getting worse.

[LSOF]

Long, long rant ahead. Be warned. Please, please, please let me say the swears.

My mom doesn't like this dictum from the prophets, her spiritual superiors. She's been crying all day over it! She's a damn fool! Suck it up and deal with it, you big baby! If assorted haircut-wanters and whiny idiots like you had locked down a year and a half ago, Earth wouldn't be in such a big mess! If fascists and fash-sympathizers of her ilk had worn masks at the January 6 putsch, so many wouldn't have been arrested. At least her sister (my aunt) and her father (my grandfather) are relatively more sensible. I want to scream obscenities in her face!!

Choice quotations, together with my raging commentary:
- "I've been crying off and on all day over this." Just follow the prophet and wear a mask, you disease enthusiast! Grow the f--k up! I'm half your age and more mature than you! When was the last time someone told you "No"? Your husband got infected because of this reckless (if not outright murderous) attitude! We are all lucky he didn't die!

- "I'm really struggling to find the love for the church leaders right now. At least I'm secure in the knowledge that this isn't the Gospel, so there's that." I'll probably break something if this of all things, where for once science and Mormonism agree, is what drives her out of the church. She would do well to remember that obedience is the first law of heaven.

- "It's just... harder?... for me to deal with this type of thing, and I often feel vilified for daring to say anything disagreeing with this. (So then I feel like I have to explain why I'm not a horrible, awful murderer.) Ugh. I think I'm ready for the Second Coming now, please!!" You richly deserve vilification! You're vilified because you're no better than an anti-vaxxer, you dolt! you fool! you maniac! you death cultist! Morons like you have killed millions around the world, and more Americans in a year and a half than the US Civil War killed in four! I'm so glad I'm moving out soon, so I won't have to hold my peace while she spreads opprobrious lies from the Republican party line. And you would rather that the world end than that you have to be mildly inconvenienced?? You want Elohim to kill, geld, and spay billions, and eternally torture millions (including your own apostate daughter by the way) so you don't have to get a couple of shots and feel slightly ill for a couple days, or put a bit of cloth over your face without feeling like you're disobeying him?

Why are these losers so obsessed with showing their gross face-holes to all-comers? Cover up, you sluts! I wonder if those fundamentalist Muslim preachers who don't accuse Covid of being an infidel conspiracy, say that the niqab was divinely inspired to protect Muslim women against disease and the kafir spurn this commandment to their own detriment.

"FREEDOM" means I won't do what you tell me and you can't do anything about it! I'm free to spread disease!! Any attempt to curb the spread is Communism and therefore satanic!!! I'm rational!!1

I'm not even close to having gotten all my feelings out, but I'm out of words.

Minor edit, which does not at all invalidate my point: Over a million total people died during the US Civil War, but 620'000 soldiers died, as compared with 636'000 American Covid deaths. My point stands.

[glass shelf]

I mean, I think RMN is a ridiculous, opportunistic, power-hungry corporate figurehead, but he got this right. Wear a mask. Get vaccinated. Take simple steps for the good of all.

I do find it surprising that so many people are upset by it. I would definitely have still gotten vaccinated and worn masks when I was a member, and I see my LDS friends doing the same.

I spent half the day working with Covid positive patients today. I worry about my kids as their schools have decided that masks are optional which means almost no one is actually wearing them. My youngest kid can't be vaccinated yet.

2021 is definitely not living up to the hopes I had for it. Maybe 2022. Maybe.

[Cnsl1]

From our stake presidency (edited version): "We have been perplexed as to how to guide the stake in this devisive situation, but the prophet bailed us out. Get vaccinated! Wear masks if you're not vaccinated! Social distance! Be safe! Follow the Prophet!"

Ok, sounds good.

Later the SAME day from the Stake President: "The temple is open! Renew your recommends! Let's fill the temple!"

Uh, what?

Reading further.. "masks are optional, unless you work in the temple. Please come, fill the temple."

Naw, I'm gonna pass.

[Red Ryder]

I decided to attend SM with Sister Ryder today.

About 60% of the congregation had a mask on. This compares to zero masks last week according to the wife, which she said had been normal for a long time now.

I’m impressed. President Nelson makes his statement and gets decent results.

[wtfluff]

I decided to attend SM with Sister Ryder today.

About 60% of the congregation had a mask on. This compares to zero masks last week according to the wife, which she said had been normal for a long time now.

I’m impressed. President Nelson makes his statement and gets decent results.

This is good.

We "hear" of a lot of dissent against Dr. CEO/Prophet's suggestions on the inter-webs, but it has been my hope that those loud folks are in the minority.

based on your observation RR, that is the case and the majority of believers will follow the suggestions.

I think lives will be saved by those followers. Again: This is good. I just wish it had happened MUCH SOONER.

[shrugged]

A family friend, former Bishop’s wife and former YW President, who has posted lots of anti-vax/mask stuff posted this today. A 6 page letter to the First Presidency full of the typical anti-vax propaganda. Its on a page full of links to Denver Snuffer’s page.

http://www.saytothem.com/wp-content/upl ... etter-.pdf


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[moksha]

I imagine a large number of Mormons in the Middle Ages scoffed at the pleading to get vaccinated against the Bubonic Plague.

[Just This Guy]

Mormon Stories has a panel discussion on this. I have not listened to it yet, but it's downloaded and in my que. I'll start it on my commute home tonight.

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/t ... d-vaccine/

[Not Buying It]

I'm not the first to say this nor the one to say it best, but I really have to express how truly disgusted I am that for these members who are leaving it isn't the misogyny, it isn't the racism, it isn't the homophobia, it isn't the sexual predation of early Church leaders, it isn't the lies and deceptions, it isn't the intentional dividing of famililies, it isn't any of the many truly and grossly immoral things the Church does and stands for that is driving them out of the Church. It is something that is a relatively minor inconvenience to them, and something that may the save the life of someone around them.

I would normally say any reason to leave the Church is a good reason - but in this case I'm gonna say anyone who is cool with all of the other garbage but leaves the Church over this is a total and complete a**hole. And that is not a word I ever use lightly.

[Just This Guy]

How Mormon is it that the single that could cause a major rift in the church is the one time when the church actually gets something RIGHT?

[Linked]

I'm not the first to say this nor the one to say it best, but I really have to express how truly disgusted I am that for these members who are leaving it isn't the misogyny, it isn't the racism, it isn't the homophobia, it isn't the sexual predation of early Church leaders, it isn't the lies and deceptions, it isn't the intentional dividing of famililies, it isn't any of the many truly and grossly immoral things the Church does and stands for that is driving them out of the Church. It is something that is a relatively minor inconvenience to them, and something that may the save the life of someone around them.

I would normally say any reason to leave the Church is a good reason - but in this case I'm gonna say anyone who is cool with all of the other garbage but leaves the Church over this is a total and complete a**hole. And that is not a word I ever use lightly.

I have similarly been struggling coming to grips with the fact that millions and millions of people, my peers, are skipping the vaccine. Mormon and non-mormon alike. The evidence of efficacy and safety is overwhelming. BILLIONS of doses of the vaccine have been administered with very little side effects. The COVID hot spot maps are basically maps of high vs. low vaccine takeup (and political maps...) which clearly shows the vaccines work. If enough people were vaccinated then COVID becomes less of an issue than RSV season. But this huge group continues to grasp at bad reasons to avoid getting vaccinated in spite of that information. And now there is a growing group on Facebook rejecting germ theory entirely. Here in Utah they are preventing prudent policy of a mask mandate at elementary schools until young kids have had a chance to be vaccinated, putting my own children at risk. I don't understand this deliberate and selective idiocy and anti-thoughtfulness. And I don't know how to fix it. And it is scary and makes it hard to have hope for the future.

The internet was supposed to put information in the hands of the masses and the masses were supposed to be wise enough to handle it. But they are not. We are not.

[blazerb]

I am really excited that this could potentially accelerate the demise of the church as it is creating a schism within !!

And a couple more cults are born. I hope the kids get out ok.

[Linked]

Just found out one of my "never-vax" in-laws got vaccinated last week. Presumably due to the directive from the FP. I guess for him loyalty to the church trumps loyalty to doubting COVID stuff.

Good job church.

[Hagoth]

And now there is a growing group on Facebook rejecting germ theory entirely.

Geez, that's right up there with flat-earthers. Who would ever have guessed that the 21st century would produce the stupidest of all time? Ancient people were not this stupid. There is a new breed of willful, defiant stupidity that I find very perplexing. In 500 BC Pythagoras was giving good observation-based arguments about how he know the earth was round. Too bad he didn't have "real news" to set him straight.

The big difference between the ignorant and the willfully stupid is a massive helping of arrogance.

[Tangent]

Here's my ultra conservative TBM mother's response a couple of weeks ago:

She thinks the reason that the prophet encouraged members to get vaccinated is not for the health benefit, but so that the membership won't be persecuted for not getting vaccinated by all the evil liberals out there. I couldn't believe it. Vaccination encouragement to avoid persecution. mind blown.

she's still not vaccinated, nor to i think she intends to.