What bothers me the most?

[Red Ryder]

One man claims to see God and convinces other people he is a prophet. They follow him and start a church. He eventually claims God has chosen him to begin sexual relations with women in his congregation. This is a pattern that has played out numerous times within numerous religious beginnings.

What bothers me is the people In the church that don’t think this is bothersome.

Either the man is an opportunist and exploits his congregation or God is a pervert.

[stuck]

I recently watched Mt. Vesuvius and the wrath of God on Prime as one of the episodes of Bible Secrets. It was kind of interesting because they were showing how Pompeii was like Sodom and Gomorah but there was evidence of Christianity there also. Their idea was that with the destruction of Pompeii sort of spurred the spread of Christianity. What is also interesting is that in Revelations 18 it talks about Babylon being destroyed in 1 hour and mentions a mountain of fire which could be very characteristic of the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius and the destruction of Pompeii. The time period also fits (79AD). This was 9 years after the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed and so some believed that maybe it was God's vengence.

Anyway, this does have a tie in to RR's post JS was an adulterer or a sexual predator and would not fit the profile of a good Christian especially how they preached against sexual immorality. They found some grafitti in Pompeii that said something to the effect that Pompeii was marked for imminent destruction and this was in one of the Christian homes/bakeries that they found and that some believed that it was like Sodom and Gomorah. Anyway, I think one needs more information to see how one might think that Pompeii was marked for imminent destruction--perhaps there was some signs of the eruption such as more frequent earthquakes and such.

The ironic thing is that the church he founded is very much against sexual immorality also. But he found a way to live his libertine lifestyle by setting up or "restoring" polygamy. Polyandry was a new development though right

[Hagoth]

What bothers me is the people In the church that don’t think this is bothersome.

For Joseph. But for the leader of any other group sexual predation by the founder is all the evidence they need that it's an evil cult.

[Red Ryder]

The ironic thing is that the church he founded is very much against sexual immorality also. But he found a way to live his libertine lifestyle by setting up or "restoring" polygamy. Polyandry was a new development though right

That’s the problem with these guys. They have the Bible to point to and say “look, God commanded those prophets to do the same. See it’s Gods will.”

Which creates an opportunity and a dilemma.

ps: check your PMs stuck.

[Charlotte]

One man claims to see God and convinces other people he is a prophet. They follow him and start a church. He eventually claims God has chosen him to begin sexual relations with women in his congregation. This is a pattern that has played out numerous times within numerous religious beginnings.

What bothers me is the people In the church that don’t think this is bothersome.

Either the man is an opportunist and exploits his congregation or God is a pervert.

What bothers me the very most is that it didn’t bother *me* for decades. Granted, I was taught very little. But still.

[Corsair]

As a restoration of the original church, we certainly have 19th century leadership ignoring obvious instructions:

1 Timothy 3:2

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

I'm sure there is an apologetic explanation that will fail to truly answer the question.

[Hagoth]

That’s the problem with these guys. They have the Bible to point to and say “look, God commanded those prophets to do the same.

But did he? It seems to me like they mostly just did it and God sort of looked the other way.

[MoPag]

One man claims to see God and convinces other people he is a prophet. They follow him and start a church. He eventually claims God has chosen him to begin sexual relations with women in his congregation. This is a pattern that has played out numerous times within numerous religious beginnings.

What bothers me is the people In the church that don’t think this is bothersome.

Either the man is an opportunist and exploits his congregation or God is a pervert.

What bothers me the very most is that it didn’t bother *me* for decades. Granted, I was taught very little. But still.

JS was always presented like a mythical superhero. At least that is how he was taught in the 90s. Joseph Campbell's theories about the archetypal heroes journey ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell) teach that we are hard wired to resonate with the hero. We want a hero. Heroes give us hope and enthusiasm.

When I look back on my journey out, I am also disturbed at how long it took me to accept JS as the predator he was. But I think at the heart of it all was that I didn't want to loose-not only my religion as I knew it-but also the person I believed was a real life super hero.

I don't know how they are presenting JS in church these days. I kind of feel like they might be ignoring or downplaying him more than they used to. But I haven't been to church in a while so I can't say for sure. Hopefully if he's not taught as a superhero, the next generation will be able to let go of him sooner rather than later.

[Angel]

..... in one of the Christian homes/bakeries that they found and that some believed that it was like Sodom and Gomorah. ....

rainbow wedding cake bakery?

...
When I look back on my journey out, I am also disturbed at how long it took me to accept JS as the predator he was.

I accepted it because polygamy is in the Bible, and I was raised saturated with the belief that the Bible was the word of God. In our culture, it is considered evil to question the Bible, and evil to question any white male "authority" figure. Takes quite a lot to undo all of that superstitious mumbo jumbo. It took a nuclear bomb for Japan to stop believing their emperor was half God etc. We are all products of the information we consume, or direct experience. If direct experience does not push us to explore outside of a comfortable bubble...

[stuck]

..... in one of the Christian homes/bakeries that they found and that some believed that it was like Sodom and Gomorah. ....

rainbow wedding cake bakery?

...
When I look back on my journey out, I am also disturbed at how long it took me to accept JS as the predator he was.

I accepted it because polygamy is in the Bible, and I was raised saturated with the belief that the Bible was the word of God. In our culture, it is considered evil to question the Bible, and evil to question any white male "authority" figure. Takes quite a lot to undo all of that superstitious mumbo jumbo. It took a nuclear bomb for Japan to stop believing their emperor was half God etc. We are all products of the information we consume, or direct experience. If direct experience does not push us to explore outside of a comfortable bubble...

That is a good question! Of course there has been homosexuality for probably as long as humans have been around. It was obviously practiced during Sodom and Gomorah. That city or cities were apparently destroyed--but again was it God's will or just a natural event like a meteorite hit it? I personally believe that if there is a god that is just and kind, that he/she/it wouldn't punish someone who was homosexual.

[Angel]

I accepted it because polygamy is in the Bible, and I was raised saturated with the belief that the Bible was the word of God. In our culture, it is considered evil to question the Bible, and evil to question any white male "authority" figure. Takes quite a lot to undo all of that superstitious mumbo jumbo. It took a nuclear bomb for Japan to stop believing their emperor was half God etc. We are all products of the information we consume, or direct experience. If direct experience does not push us to explore outside of a comfortable bubble...

That is a good question! Of course there has been homosexuality for probably as long as humans have been around. It was obviously practiced during Sodom and Gomorah. That city or cities were apparently destroyed--but again was it God's will or just a natural event like a meteorite hit it? I personally believe that if there is a god that is just and kind, that he/she/it wouldn't punish someone who was homosexual.
[/quote]

I agree, completely unjust to punish someone for their marriage preference. I have homosexuals on both sides of my family tree, all in happy marriages who are old and grey, been together their entire lives. Through deconstruction, it comes to following your own conscience, following what is loving and kind above all. Even if God did condemn homosexuals, that is not a loving or just being, and I would not worship such an entity. In groups when asked to pray, I no longer address the traditional "Heavenly Father", I just start prayers with a simple "Loving God". God - as it is inclusive of everyone's beliefs, and "Loving" because I would not address any other spiritual being.