If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 44

[annotatedbom]

For Come Follow Me, Lesson 44, Nov 9-15, 2020, Ether 1-5

If I wanted to encourage thought and try to understand devout believers better, I might ask:
“Why did Moroni give us Ether's Genealogy?”

See the Things to consider for this lesson.

And, here’s a list of some other observations about this lesson’s reading.

Enjoy!
A-Bom

[deacon blues]

Another excellent post. The challenge is how get those afflicted with "Mormon Myopia" to consider such problems with the BOM 'abridgement?'

[moksha]

Speaking of discontinuity of records, if we were to examine the collection of pottery and plates stored in Vault F up Little Cottonwood Canyon, would we find missing generations from Sauron to Grima Wormtongue, and from Grima to Vlad the Impaler, and from Vlad to Donald Trump? Just curious.

[Exiled]

They were in those barges/submarines for almost a year, without fresh water. Did the magic rocks also act as a water purification system, too? What about the sanitation problems? Urine and feces would be spilling all over everywhere when trying to shove it through the small hole. At a certain point, it would smell worse than the worst outhouse, causing disease. Then add to that, the animals they carried with them. Animals are shitting machines and would add to their problems.

What about food? Was there enough room for food? What about scurvy? That was a problem for the early Europeans. What did Ether and crew do?

These aren't the only problems.

[annotatedbom]

Another excellent post. The challenge is how get those afflicted with "Mormon Myopia" to consider such problems with the BOM 'abridgement?'

Good point! This is exactly why I have the conditional clause, "If I could ask them ... " I expect anything from my site to have a very low probability of changing the mind of any believer. This was mostly therapy for me and maybe a little validation for those who have come to realize the Church isn't what it claims.

[annotatedbom]

They were in those barges/submarines for almost a year, without fresh water. Did the magic rocks also act as a water purification system, too? What about the sanitation problems? Urine and feces would be spilling all over everywhere when trying to shove it through the small hole. At a certain point, it would smell worse than the worst outhouse, causing disease. Then add to that, the animals they carried with them. Animals are shitting machines and would add to their problems.

What about food? Was there enough room for food? What about scurvy? That was a problem for the early Europeans. What did Ether and crew do?

These aren't the only problems.

Hahaa! Thanks for the preview to my post next Sunday! Pun intended, the Jaredite voyage is a real shit show

[græy]

I wanted to report. This past Sunday DW made sure we signed in to our ward's virtual gospel doctrine lesson.

In attendance there was the teacher, and a whopping two other families, including us. That's right, three total households participating.

The really fascinating part was that the first question posed by the teacher was "Why did Moroni give us Ether's Genealogy?”

Coincidence? I hope not! I'm actually looking forward to the first few minutes of the next class to see if teach is following the amazingly insightful annotatedbom!

[Hagoth]

As Jacob explained, he could only write a little of his words because of how difficult it was to engrave them on plates (Jacob 4:1).

This is a great point that has never been adequately addressed by apologists. We have things like Ether's genealogy, the ultra-detailed and completely useless explanation of the Nephite coinage system, endless war stories, the weird multi-paragraph response of an entire crowd speaking in unison (Mosiah 5:1-5), etc, etc. And yet we are told in 3 Nephi:

3 Nephi 26: 6 And now there cannot be written in this book even a hundredth part of the things which Jesus did truly teach unto the people; 7 But behold the plates of Nephi do contain the more part of the things which he taught the people. 8 And these things have I written, which are a lesser part of the things which he taught the people;

This is weird in two ways.

First, they had room for all of the previously mentioned stuff but not for Jesus' message that was the focus of the entire book? The message that Jesus burned, crushed, and drowned untold multitudes of their countrymen so he could deliver to the survivors?

Second, according to this passage, the Nephites did write more of Jesus' words on another set of plates, but that was not passed down to us, even though the BoM is written specifically for our day? They wrote it down and then just buried it somewhere, never to be seen again? Talk about hiding your light under a bushel.

[Five]

Second, according to this passage, the Nephites did write more of Jesus' words on another set of plates, but that was not passed down to us, even though the BoM is written specifically for our day? They wrote it down and then just buried it somewhere, never to be seen again? Talk about hiding your light under a bushel.

Not to derail but this made me think of something. I was on a Christian forum for a little while after my shelf broke, arguing with TBMs when my anger was still fresh and burning. One of the things that came up was the signatures of the eight witnesses being in Oliver Cowdery's handwriting. In response, a TBM told me that was the printer's copy. That the original copy of the BoM and the witnesses testimony with their signatures, was hidden behind some stones in the Smith's home(I forget which house). The reason being of course to keep that original copy safe...even though it was dug out later and seen to have suffered extensive water damage. The irony was lost on that member but it just reminded me of that the way you phrased this. It's strange, this habit of burying precious things in order to keep them safe, but boy, if we could show them to you, it woulda been great. All your questions would have been answered definitively.

[Hagoth]

Second, according to this passage, the Nephites did write more of Jesus' words on another set of plates, but that was not passed down to us, even though the BoM is written specifically for our day? They wrote it down and then just buried it somewhere, never to be seen again? Talk about hiding your light under a bushel.

Not to derail but this made me think of something. I was on a Christian forum for a little while after my shelf broke, arguing with TBMs when my anger was still fresh and burning. One of the things that came up was the signatures of the eight witnesses being in Oliver Cowdery's handwriting. In response, a TBM told me that was the printer's copy. That the original copy of the BoM and the witnesses testimony with their signatures, was hidden behind some stones in the Smith's home(I forget which house). The reason being of course to keep that original copy safe...even though it was dug out later and seen to have suffered extensive water damage. The irony was lost on that member but it just reminded me of that the way you phrased this. It's strange, this habit of burying precious things in order to keep them safe, but boy, if we could show them to you, it woulda been great. All your questions would have been answered definitively.

Like all of that archeology that will prove the BoM. It's there but they just haven't found it.

Not to derail even further, but having the names of eight guys on a piece of paper doesn't prove anything.

The sacred book of the United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing (aka the Shakers), called The Book and Roll has the signatures of over 60 witnesses of the “Testimonies of eleven mighty Angels, that attended the writing of the Roll.” It's worth noting the Martin Harris, while not one of the published witnesses, also claimed to have seen the angel and the book. James Strang's Book of the Law of the Lord includes the signatures of seven witnesses who describe the metal plates from which the book was produced: “We examined them with our eyes, and handled them with our hands. The engravings are beautiful antique workmanship, bearing a striking resemblance to the ancient oriental languages.”

The Testimony of the Eight Witnesses is not the unique marvel that Mormons think it is. It was just what people did in those days to boost the credibility of their book.

The case for Strang is even stronger than Joseph's, since many other people saw the plates, and Strang also got the testimonies of the guys who actually dug the plates up where the angel told Strang he would find them.