BOM and LOTR (Lord of the Rings)

[deacon blues]

I hope this is the appropriate place for this discussion. I'm diving back into LOTR simply for diversion, and comparing it with the BOM seems like it may shed light on some interesting aspects of both books. I read the BOM in 9th grade for Seminary and it didn't really grab me, but I recognized it as a significant work. I began reading The Hobbit at Thanksgiving of my 11th grade year and it entranced me. I finished LOTR by Christmas. I've probably read both works between 5-10 times.
One LOTR quote impressed me early. Treebeard said, “Side? I am on nobody's side, because nobody is on my side.” This was an interesting switch from the black/white good/evil perspective of the BOM. When I grew older I began to feel bad that goblins/orcs were portrayed as non-human and beyond redemption. Kind of like Korihor, who was rejected by the one time apostate Alma the Younger.
Both books have their share of good quotes.
I know J.R.R. Tolkien fans can be as annoying as TBM's , but any thoughts you would like to share?

[El Chihuahua Chingón]

Interesting comparison, I should start reading the BOM again as though it were a fantasy novel

And refer to it as "The Book of Mordor"

[moksha]

And refer to it as "The Book of Mordor"

Did you know there is still no good easy name to refer to the people formerly called Mormon?
Residents of Mordor or "ROM" would make a workable substitute.

[Hagoth]

Did you know there is still no good easy name to refer to the people formerly called Mormon?
Residents of Mordor or "ROM" would make a workable substitute.

I dunno, Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints rolls right off the tongue. Maybe we could fulfill RMN's admonition to keep the Savior's name in there by calling members of the church Latterdayjesushchristites.

[blazerb]

I began to feel bad that goblins/orcs were portrayed as non-human and beyond redemption. Kind of like Korihor, who was rejected by the one time apostate Alma the Younger.

If I remember the appendices correctly, Tolkien said that the orcs were given Mordor after the War of the Rings as a place to live. I think Tolkien did not see them an irredeemable. But they could not escape their slavery until the dark lords were defeated.

I don't know if that really makes the situation better even if I do remember correctly. But there is probably less racism in LOTR than in the BoM.

[Red Ryder]

I began to feel bad that goblins/orcs were portrayed as non-human and beyond redemption. Kind of like Korihor, who was rejected by the one time apostate Alma the Younger.

... But they could not escape their slavery until the dark lords were defeated. ...

Many Bishops have said the same thing regarding serving a mission and self abuse.

[2bizE]

A few of my favorite quotes from The fellowship of the Ring:

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.”

J.R.R. Tolkien – The Fellowship of The Ring

“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.
“So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

J.R.R. Tolkien – The Fellowship of The Ring

“I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”

J.R.R. Tolkien – The Fellowship of The Ring

“Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens”, said Gimli

[deacon blues]

A few of my favorite quotes from The fellowship of the Ring:

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.”

J.R.R. Tolkien – The Fellowship of The Ring

“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.
“So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

J.R.R. Tolkien – The Fellowship of The Ring

“I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”

J.R.R. Tolkien – The Fellowship of The Ring

“Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens”, said Gimli

"Not all who wander are lost" really speaks to me. It confirms that it's OK to be a seeker.
I can't remember the source, but I recall somebody saying the reason they thought the BOM was 'true' was because it had so many good quotes. But then so does LOTR, and Les Miserables, and many other good books. I think if Joseph attended revivals as often as possible, he heard a lot of good quotes, so that is a possible explanation. Combine that with a creative intellect and I think it more likely that he (or his subconscious) wrote the BOM.

[SaidNobody]

I know J.R.R. Tolkien fans can be as annoying as TBM's , but any thoughts you would like to share?

I'm going through the movies right now. I read the LofTR series about 20x, listened to the audio 3x, watched the movie 5x.

The part of your post that struck me was feeling sorry for the globins. I was actually thinking about this very thing. Goblins are not immortal like the elves, but somehow it seems like certain Goblin figures were. Like the Goblin-king of Goblin-town remembered the Goblin Cleaver and Foe Hammer from the days of old, elven swords made in the city of Gondolin some 4000 years past. Same with the Defiler, he seemed to date back to Morgoth, the evil creator god.

For a moment, I felt bad for them. They seemed to be so old. And almost instantly the "spirit" said to me that enemies are enemies. Even if God should have a plan of redemption for them their role is as your enemy. Feeling bad for your enemy causes you to let your guard down. You might even welcome them into your home. But they are still your enemy, they will kill you (metaphorically speaking) if given the chance.

Feeling sorry for enemies is dangerous and suicidal. Respect them, respect life, but realize that God has called your for a purpose (live life) and enemies will try to stop you.

So, no pity for the goblins from me.