Test the Spirits

[deacon blues]

I went to church with the kids and grandkids today in Texas. The speaker summarized David Bednar’s conference talk about Tests. Bednar talked about members preparing for and passing tests, but I thought about 1 John 4:1 and thought how it says to try or prove (test) the spirits, and - I think- the prophets as well. I was reminded of Deuteronomy 18:22. Evangelicals would sometimes use it as a scriptural test: if the prophet/spirit predicts something that doesn’t come to pass it proves that prophet/spirit is false. Joseph did not bat 1.000 on his prophecies- probably much lower. What does that tell us?

[2bizE]

It tells us we have all been fooled.

[Hagoth]

I think Joseph said too much when he admitted that some prophesies come from men and some from the devil, and that apparently he couldn't tell the difference. I wish I could remember where I saw the Hyrum Smith quote where he claimed that revelations are about 10% accurate. In other words, worse than guessing.

I guess this is why we have "prophets" who no longer prophesy because they get it wrong just as frequently as self-proclaimed psychics. Remember how hard they pushed food storage in the 70s-80s? It had pretty much fallen off entirely their plate when an actual disaster came along. Remember Joseph Fielding Smith saying we would never reach the moon? Hinkley saying that nothing would come of the Iraq war? Oaks saying that marriage equality would decimate the population of the United States? Of course, they don't even dare call something a prophesy in the rare occasion they do make a prediction, in which case you have to ask what good are they?

[Five]

... in which case you have to ask what good are they?

Bingo. I had a testimony, I "knew" the prophets were of God because they had the singular authority to lead with inspiration. If they don't foresee things enough to give me a helpful heads up; if they declare doctrine that later can be found to be false or disavowed; if they blame me for not already knowing things that used to be anti-Mormon propaganda, then how is having them any different than the leaders of other religions and spiritual movements? Without that hold on singular authority, without it being applicable or useful to my life here, then I do not owe them my allegiance based on that.

[wtfluff]

...
1 John 4:1 and thought how it says to try or prove (test) the spirits tell us?
...

Is this the same as trying to prove (test) ghosts?

[Hagoth]

... how is having them any different than the leaders of other religions and spiritual movements?

And once that lightbulb comes on the church loses all its magic. Poof.

[Hagoth]

Today I listened to RFM's review of Bednar's talk (I didn't listen to conference). So the test is whether we were faithful in having food storage, despite the fact that they have only mentioned it in 2 times in 2 decades? Does Bednar realize that many of the people he's talking too got married and started families long after the church stopped talking about food storage? Does he realize that those who do have it now probably have a ton of outdated food that they probably shouldn't eat? Is it totally lost on him that the people who really failed the test are the men who put themselves up on a pedestal as the Voice of Warning? And they were caught off completely off guard?

Amazing how he reflects the failures of the leaders back as blame on the victims. What an ass-hat (it's time that word returns to NOM).

[Advocate]

I haven't listened to the talk (and don't plan to), but I made a connection worth sharing. Over conference weekend I wondered why the church feels the need to make conference so long (10 hours over 2 days) and have conference twice a year. Then it hit me: the church wants to use the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy:

…[T]he epidemiologist Seymour Grufferman coined the term “Texas sharpshooter effect.” Stand way back and blast the side of a barn with a shotgun and then find some holes that are crowded together. Draw a circle around them and you have what looks like a bull’s-eye.*

Obviously the more bullet holes (i.e. talks on different subjects) there are, the easier it is to paint a bulls-eye.

What is really sad is how willing they are to paint a bulls-eye, given so few "on target" bullet holes and so many random other ones. If we figure each conference has 35 talks in it (average 7 per session * 5 sessions in each conference) that is 70 talks per year. Per the OP, food storage has been mentioned 2 times in 2 decades. 2 decades gives us 1,400 talks. 2 talks out of 1400 (.14% hit rate) is a bulls-eye in Bednar's view. The efficacy of the "prophets" is quite sad when viewed this way.

[Rob4Hope]

Several years ago I was given a few books by Bednar. I don't remember the titles. What I do remember was they basically enthroned the position of "have enough faith NOT to be healed". In one book, I read things that were so offensive to me -- victim blaming -- that I dumped the lot in the trash.

There is a power-mentality and smugness that seems to raise its head in certain leaders.

BY -- He told the women of the church that he would grant them all divorces if they didn't quit their complaining. Truth was, however, that if that had happened, they would not have been able to support themselves because of discrimination,...so BY was speaking from a power place of smugness and control. His words were founded on a lie.

JFS -- His words in Doctrines of Salvation can best be described as 'cavalier'...possessing a sense of arrogant smugness that is quite irritating. A couple of places in that work come across as: "You people are so stupid. So,...I will throw you a bone by answering your question that you are too stupid to understand yourselves...."

BRM -- I remember reading his response after the 1978 Race decision came down. He said in effect: "I said some of those things. We work with the best light we have....but not is the time for ALL NON-BELIEVING people to get in line and follow the prophet and move forward." The way it came across was he was blaming the people, and not taking any blame for his own mis-founded position. That guy was a king of smugness and arrogance.

We have people like Bednar now. At the beginning of his tenure he gave that talk on "Tender Mercies"...and I had such high hopes for him. As time has passed, he has knuckled down into a conservative monster. He is a junior Darth Oaks.

[wtfluff]

So the test is whether we were faithful in having food storage, despite the fact that they have only mentioned it in 2 times in 2 decades?

Is this 2 times in 2 decades real data?

I know a certain female who claims that food storage has never been de-emphasized in "Relief Society" and amongst the women-folk. Yes, my "data" is one person/anecdote, amongst the "16 million strong" number of "members of TCOJCOL-dS."

[Just This Guy]

So the test is whether we were faithful in having food storage, despite the fact that they have only mentioned it in 2 times in 2 decades?

Is this 2 times in 2 decades real data?

I know a certain female who claims that food storage has never been de-emphasized in "Relief Society" and amongst the women-folk. Yes, my "data" is one person/anecdote, amongst the "16 million strong" number of "members of TCOJCOL-dS."

This actually shows how big the disparity can be in teaching throughout the church. It WTFluff's female acquaintance may certainly have heard food storage regularly discussed as part of her local ward RS group. But sample size of one does not mean that every RS group in the church was teaching it.

Despite the efforts of the department of Correlation, teaching can vary as much as leadership roulette can.

[Hagoth]

Is this 2 times in 2 decades real data?

Go here: and search for "food storage" https://www.lds-general-conference.org/
Just as interesting, food storage has already been mentioned 5 times in 2020, all at October conference (3x by Bednar), deep into the pandemic. Great Voice of Warning, guys!

[wtfluff]

Is this 2 times in 2 decades real data?

Go here: and search for "food storage" https://www.lds-general-conference.org/
Just as interesting, food storage has already been mentioned 5 times in 2020, all at October conference (3x by Bednar), deep into the pandemic. Great Voice of Warning, guys!

It's highly doubtful I will ever be able to use this reference, and it actually won't refute the "relief-society" apologetic, but I will try to keep this in the Fluffy memory bank.

Interesting that the HARD RED WHEAT (food) Storage doesn't seem to have been mentioned too much in the "Women's Session" of the twice-yearly Rah! Rah! session for TCOJCOL-dS™.