Ward Council is Closed (Minded)

[Wonderment]

n other words, as long as I only say "I'm not so sure about a, b, or c", and never go into any more detail. As long as I still bless the sacrament for our family, give priesthood blessings, help every single man/woman/child who needs a blessing or is moving a piece of furniture. As long as I still pay tithing and plan to attend the temple. As long as I am still 100% TBM in every action and detail then we have a peaceful time. But any degree of conversation past that brings tears, fighting, and avoidance.

I AM willing to give her space to believe. I will even continue to go to church and support her. But I HAVE to be able to be myself as much as she needs to be herself. Right now, we can't even have that conversation. That is what I am looking forward to. I don't need her to change. I don't need her to follow me out. I will support her staying in. But I cannot stay in myself, not indefinitely.

You are willing to let her be who she is in terms of religious faith, but she is not willing to let you be who you are . So you have to live a lie instead of living an authentic life. It is like being trapped in a prison, with the spouse in control of the keys to the prison cell. This situation, where you cannot be your authentic self, because she insists on total control of your actions ( attend meetings, pay tithing, give blessings, help everyone move furniture, and so forth), and when you don't comply, you face her retribution and wrath ( Passive-agressive, tears, fighting, the silent treatment, etc.) is completely untenable.

So, one of the purposes of therapy might be to ask her to stop her highly controlling, micro-managing behavior. As you say, it's not about convincing her to believe as you do --- it's about her giving you enough space to be your authentic self. I'm very hopeful that the therapist will be able to see the anguish and pressure that you're under. It's so emotionally stressful and painful to live with a dominating "control freak", even if you really love them.
Very best wishes to you, and please keep us posted. -- Wndr.

[slavereeno]

With women this fear is a little worse because not only do they lose the man they love, they get “assigned” to somebody else. This fear of finding themselves the 33rd wife of John Doe who is a total stranger to them is horrifying.

Damn. As a male in the church, I never thought about how upsetting this would feel. Frankly that kind of doctrine is nothing short of Satanic.

[slavereeno]

With my DW, being vulnerable and talking about my insecurities, pain and anxiety about the church stuff was far more effective than actually talking about the church stuff.

I can see how this might back-fire though, if this is perceived as "loosing the spirit" then the response may cement into one of "come back and you will feel better, can't you see this is Stan trying to lead you ash-tray?"

[græy]

Back to the ward council.

Our local ward mission leader has been serving in that calling for about 3 years now. For all but a few months, this brother has been on and attended ward council meetings during his 3 years in that calling. He is younger guy, mid to late 20s, and his wife is a convert of about 4 years.

The bishop relayed to myself and the RSP that he and his family are leaving the church and want no further contact from anyone in the ward. It sounds like he joined the elders to meet with an investigator some time back and had some questions brought up that caused him to dig a bit deeper - and badda-bing-badda-boom he's out.

That makes four high-profile families to leave our ward in 4 years. Of the four, two were high council members, one was a RSP councilor, and the last were practically the ward grandma and grandpa. After every departure the ward council spends one entire meeting talking about how the disaffected member must have let some obscure part of church history get under their skin and then they decide to throw everything away because they're not willing to put in the work to remain faithful. The council members take turns reassuring themselves that even the elect are falling away and that we must remind ourselves daily of the truthfulness of the gospel (i.e. church) lest we fall into a similar path.

At every one of these conversations I have tried to voice my side of the argument that we cannot judge what they are going through and that there is in fact a different side of church history than we are taught in the manuals. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I have emphasized that learning new - and accurate - history which doesn't completely jive with what we have been taught our whole lives is jarring, and hurtful, when we have been raised to believe that the church is the gold standard of truth and honesty. I have pleaded with the ward council to read and teach the essays, I have offered to buy the copies of "Bridges" by David Ostler. All to no avail.

The ward council, despite all their claims to the contrary, do not care about individual families or why or how they might be suffering. They do not care to understand how they might reach out and empathise with those who are disturbed about things they learn. They do not care to do anything but reinforce the narrative that makes them comfortable in their current situation.

And I am done trying to convince them otherwise.

I am growing increasingly apathetic about my calling. Ministering interviews are just phone calls to see what individuals are up to these days - I don't even ask about minstering.

I am supposed to weed out people who ask for welfare assistance but have other means of getting help (improved budgeting, family support, etc) before approving church welfare, but I don't. I basically just approve everyone regardless of whether they pay tithing or fulfill callings. I even recommend they ask for a lot of extra food from the storehouse because the church can certainly afford it.

There is so little Christian charity from the ward council. They only really reach out to those they think they can make conform. I don't want to be a part of it anymore.

[Red Ryder]

Graey, I’ve followed your story since you first showed up on NOM and am impressed with your ability to carry on. You represent your integrity each time you post updates.

It’s sad the church forces good honest men like you out the door eventually.

I vividly remember similar experiences trying to get people to understand. It never will happen.

Keep doing the good work of helping others. People need a guy like you when they are stuck in bad situations within the church.

[Linked]

That makes four high-profile families to leave our ward in 4 years. Of the four, two were high council members, one was a RSP councilor, and the last were practically the ward grandma and grandpa. After every departure the ward council spends one entire meeting talking about how the disaffected member must have let some obscure part of church history get under their skin and then they decide to throw everything away because they're not willing to put in the work to remain faithful. The council members take turns reassuring themselves that even the elect are falling away and that we must remind ourselves daily of the truthfulness of the gospel (i.e. church) lest we fall into a similar path.

That must be so frustrating. I sat through some ward council meetings after my shelf broke and when they would talk like those who didn't come to church were lost and needed to be corrected it drove me nuts. In their minds there was no other option between faithful discipleship to the church and being a lost soul. I was young and didn't want to out myself so I would just stare at my hands and then be grumpy for a couple days. Good for you for trying to give them a more objective view of the situation. You have certainly done enough to call it quits when you are ready and quietly (or loudly) fade away.

[græy]

Graey, I’ve followed your story since you first showed up on NOM and am impressed with your ability to carry on. You represent your integrity each time you post updates.

It’s sad the church forces good honest men like you out the door eventually.

I vividly remember similar experiences trying to get people to understand. It never will happen.

Keep doing the good work of helping others. People need a guy like you when they are stuck in bad situations within the church.

Thank you RR. That means a lot coming from you. I do feel like the church and its imperfect members do actively push us out. We're expected to sacrifice a great deal for the good of the ward, but in the end nothing we say really matters to any of them.

[græy]

That must be so frustrating. I sat through some ward council meetings after my shelf broke and when they would talk like those who didn't come to church were lost and needed to be corrected it drove me nuts. In their minds there was no other option between faithful discipleship to the church and being a lost soul. I was young and didn't want to out myself so I would just stare at my hands and then be grumpy for a couple days.

Thanks, Linked. So many of us have been in this situation. I helps to have friends like you and RR who have been here before.

Good for you for trying to give them a more objective view of the situation. You have certainly done enough to call it quits when you are ready and quietly (or loudly) fade away.

I wish I could call it quits. DW doesn't see it that way. Though, I'm feeling more and more that something has got to give.

[Mormorrisey]

Graey, I’ve followed your story since you first showed up on NOM and am impressed with your ability to carry on. You represent your integrity each time you post updates.

It’s sad the church forces good honest men like you out the door eventually.

I vividly remember similar experiences trying to get people to understand. It never will happen.

Keep doing the good work of helping others. People need a guy like you when they are stuck in bad situations within the church.

I can only echo what RR says here. You might never know who you can influence when you help others through their challenges, despite the overall thinking of the herd. While so many doors get closed, and "members" like us get marginalized, I've been constantly amazed at the other doors that open, both in and out of the church. You're doing great work, without even knowing it. Thanks for posting your updates, it gives me courage to do and say the things that need to be done and said, even when I'm not sure it's doing any good at all.

Recently, I've been wrestling a great deal with something I feel I need to do, and it might end really badly, or go really well. Pondering this while reading your thread has given me added courage to do what needs to be done, and just deal with the consequences. I wish us both luck!

[græy]

I can only echo what RR says here. You might never know who you can influence when you help others through their challenges, despite the overall thinking of the herd. While so many doors get closed, and "members" like us get marginalized, I've been constantly amazed at the other doors that open, both in and out of the church. You're doing great work, without even knowing it. Thanks for posting your updates, it gives me courage to do and say the things that need to be done and said, even when I'm not sure it's doing any good at all.

Recently, I've been wrestling a great deal with something I feel I need to do, and it might end really badly, or go really well. Pondering this while reading your thread has given me added courage to do what needs to be done, and just deal with the consequences. I wish us both luck!

Thank you too, Mormorrisey. Your post about having nothing in common with the other HC members has been ringing in my head since last week. Knowing that you're living/working through similar circumstances gives me courage as well. Good luck to us both!