Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
Jeffret wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:17 pm
But, what the members didn't realize is that the PotF was primarily a political document, to be used in its anti-gay activism and court filings.
Multiple sources have identified BYU law professor Richard Wilkins as the author. Wilkins devoted much of his life to trying to influence governments against marriage equality, with a special focus on Muslim exclusion policies.
He is also fondly remembered for playing Ebeneezer Scrooge in A Christmas Carol at the Hale Theater for 17 years.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Jeffret wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:17 pm
But, what the members didn't realize is that the PotF was primarily a political document, to be used in its anti-gay activism and court filings.
Multiple sources have identified BYU law professor Richard Wilkins as the author. Wilkins devoted much of his life to trying to influence governments against marriage equality, with a special focus on Muslim exclusion policies.
He is also fondly remembered for playing Ebeneezer Scrooge in A Christmas Carol at the Hale Theater for 17 years.
Wasn't there an Amicus Curiae Brief "officially" filed in court proceedings in Hawaii at some point that eventually "morphed" into the original Croc-Proc™?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus
Jeffret wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:17 pm
But, what the members didn't realize is that the PotF was primarily a political document, to be used in its anti-gay activism and court filings.
Multiple sources have identified BYU law professor Richard Wilkins as the author. Wilkins devoted much of his life to trying to influence governments against marriage equality, with a special focus on Muslim exclusion policies.
He is also fondly remembered for playing Ebeneezer Scrooge in A Christmas Carol at the Hale Theater for 17 years.
Wasn't there an Amicus Curiae Brief "officially" filed in court proceedings in Hawaii at some point that eventually "morphed" into the original Croc-Proc™?
Pretty much. There was also a PR firm that had a hand in massaging the final wording.
Prior to the advent of Prop 8, Wilkins was pretty much the face and main driver for anti-gay activism in Mormonism and he was sometimes even recognized outside the culture. He established and promoted much of the structure and arguments. I hated when he came out with new stuff. It was always so flimsy and bogus. Some of it still has significant negative influence within the church today. Surprisingly, once Prop 8 came around, which really was the main event, he wasn't much directly involved. The church backed Prop 8 defenders from other religions, who considered Mormons Satanic and refused to hire them but were plenty willing to take their money, because the church didn't want to be seen as directly involved. With the growth of the internet, though, it was possible to shine the light on the church's involvement, something that hadn't been possible with Prop 22 in 2000.
After the publication of the Croc-Proc, the church referenced it when filing the amicus briefs, as if that was somehow important and relevant.
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")
I think what Nelson doesn't realize about the difference between him and Hinckley is that GBH actually had warmth, you know? And that's not something you can fake, and it clearly doesn't come naturally to RMN.
nibbler wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:25 pm
I didn't consume it through an orthodox lens so it's hard for me to tell whether the orthodox were as underwhelmed as I was.
So I was watching it with my TBM parents. It was actually kind of sad. I mean there is a really big build up because Corona is so new. We are all in quarantine. All the GAs are social distances for the entire GC. The prophet is going to make an announcement. And I think Rusty actually read the thing in the scared groove. The build up was all there for something spectacular (or at least relevant.) Buuuut it wasn't spectacular or relevant. I could kind of see a flicker of disappointment in my parent's faces. But then they shrugged it off. There was an "oh how nice. What a great reminder." etc.
My dad printed off a copy for DD and I to take home. I told her to hang it where she wanted. She hung in next to her Wonder Woman poster in her room. But she didn't put the push pin in hard enough so most of it slipped under her Wonder Woman poster. So right now it's mostly under Wonder Woman's left boob.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound
MoPag wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:45 pm
My dad printed off a copy for DD and I to take home. I told her to hang it where she wanted. She hung in next to her Wonder Woman poster in her room. But she didn't put the push pin in hard enough so most of it slipped under her Wonder Woman poster. So right now it's mostly under Wonder Woman's left boob.
Where... Joseph would have wanted it?
I'm sure there's a magnificent analogy to be had here.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.
MoPag wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:45 pm
My dad printed off a copy for DD and I to take home. I told her to hang it where she wanted. She hung in next to her Wonder Woman poster in her room. But she didn't put the push pin in hard enough so most of it slipped under her Wonder Woman poster. So right now it's mostly under Wonder Woman's left boob.
Where... Joseph would have wanted it?
I'm sure there's a magnificent analogy to be had here.
Now I'm just imagining Wonder Woman kicking JS's a$$.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound
2bizE wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:01 pm
My favorite part is “ We further witness that Joseph Smith was given the gift and power of God to translate an ancient record:”
Now it is enshrined that the BoM was translated even as the narrative is changing to it being a revelation. I’m anxious to see how this plays out.
Well, see, "translate" really means something else, like "receive a transmission." Whenever you transmit something through a medium, it has to be encoded on one end and decoded on the other, and "decode" means "translate from code." Joseph Smith was decoding spiritual information. Voila!
Or how about this? We don't know how Joseph translated it, but it could have been pretty much any activity that involves some source material and writing things down in English. That'll cover everything, including producing pseudepigrapha; i.e. religious fan fiction.
Anyway... "translate" is used in tons of church materials, including the D&C, to describe how Joseph produced the BoM. He painted the church into this corner almost 200 years ago.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.
AdmiralHoldo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:04 pm
I think what Nelson doesn't realize about the difference between him and Hinckley is that GBH actually had warmth, you know? And that's not something you can fake, and it clearly doesn't come naturally to RMN.
He can still rub his hands together and say, "Excellent! Don't you agree Smithers?"
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha
And to back up my assertion, I did not hear one single mention of this Proclamation in the GC that just ended, even by the biggest brown-nosers. To be fair, I missed some of Saturday.
I really don't think that's how RMN saw that going.
