Finally finished Brodie's NMKMH. Shaken

[MalcolmVillager]

Just as some consolation, the church are masters at hiding at troubling information. Masters. They've had a lot of practice, and even with the essays, the new Saints book, new videos and a new "openness," they are still controlling the narrative for 99% of the members. And it will ever be thus, because once you go down the rabbit hole you tend not to be a member anymore, or if you're stuck, become a NOM.

Good luck barrelling through all of this, we get it.

So true. I read the first book of Saints. It is so whitewashed and faith promoting. Just enough in there so that they can say "see, we haven't hidden anything."

My TBM BIL just said he is reading it and learned a lot about JS. Stuff that shows JS made some mistakes and was completely human, but that the Lord still worked through him.

SMH. Mission accomplished correlation committee.

[MalcolmVillager]

I am about half way through Waco. I wish my wife would watch it with me, but she refuses to watch anything beyond TV14. Real things are too real for her Mormon-ified world view.

Sigh. Sorry. Although I am not sure why Waco is more than TV14. I don't recall any nudity or real graphic violence. There is some language but we just finished "Never Have I Ever" which was TV14 and it had C bombs and some pretty adult situations (no nudity). The ratings on streaming seem pretty loose.

See if she will watch escaping polygamy or scientology stuff. That is what started my wife to realize what Mark Twain said about the Foley of others religions, and our own.

[MalcolmVillager]

Sorry Malcolm. This is so hard to listen to.

And probably the hardest part is knowing that it could take a long while for things to change and there's very little I could say that would hurry or soften that process.

As some say, it's a marathon, not a sprint.

But as long as you have truth on your side eventually you will win. Things will get better. You're stronger than you think.

So true. I often say that TRUTH wins in the end.

Deep breaths.

[Reuben]

I've said before that disaffected members feel betrayed three times.

Once when they learn the truth.

Once when they experience the social consequences of unbelief.

Once when the church gaslights and blames them after it comes a little cleaner.

I've come to realize that this is overly simplistic, though. Like any other narcissist, it has the capacity and will to betray us over and over.

Some people manage to establish enough boundaries or fit in well enough that they achieve coexistence with minimal animosity. I haven't. Too much self-misrepresentation for me. The best thing for me to do has been to put as much distance between it and myself as possible.

May there be a road.

[Thoughtful]

I've said before that disaffected members feel betrayed three times.

Once when they learn the truth.

Once when they experience the social consequences of unbelief.

Once when the church gaslights and blames them after it comes a little cleaner.

I've come to realize that this is overly simplistic, though. Like any other narcissist, it has the capacity and will to betray us over and over.

Some people manage to establish enough boundaries or fit in well enough that they achieve coexistence with minimal animosity. I haven't. Too much self-misrepresentation for me. The best thing for me to do has been to put as much distance between it and myself as possible.

May there be a road.

So very true.

[2bizE]

So I have been in the throws of a formal faith crisis for 6 years. The first 3 I worked through stuff mostly alone and here on NOM. DW didnt want to hear anything and challenged my sources. I dont blame her. This stuff is scary.

2 years ago I ordered Brodie and it sat on my shelf. I had already come to my firm conclusion that the church wasn't what it claimed to be. I had heard all the podcasts and read all the articles, essays, and letters. In a lot of ways it felt like "no man" was outdated and trumped by the new stuff. I also was sort of burnt out on all this stuff and moved on to science and other things I enjoy.

However I felt a pull to finally do it. Outside of the CESLetter, it was really the most officially blatantly anti thing I had read. So started it about a year ago. It is a lot of the same stories. It is dense but well written. She does a great job of telling the story, sharing quotes, and giving anecdotes. It has taken me a long time to slog through it in spurts.

Anyway, this week we watched Waco on Netflix. We had seen previous documentaries on it, but this was different. It was theatrical with real production value and decent acting. Especially David and the FBI negotiator. It made things so real. At the end I felt horrible for the Davidians who were slaughter by the missteps of the federal government.

Of course the comparison to JS is obvious. In fact, I downloaded David Koresh's 7 Seals and the publisher for the library had a forward and summary. They directly correlate the biblical writing/dictation style to JS and others (Elena White).

I read the last 4 chapters of NMKMH tonight and felt the same things. A delusional man, who happens to be charismatic and truly believes he speaks for god. Followers who have hope for something better. Who seek certainty for salvation. Who want to feel chosen and elevated. Joseph wasn't innocent, but he was shot in cold blood. Yeah, he had a pistol and possibly shot someone. But he fell from the window, was dragged against a wall, and shot point blank by 4 muskets.

I am sad tonight. Really pretty shaken. JS was complicated.

Also, I am pissed about how this stuff was written in the 1940's. The edition I read had an added supplement that talks about BofA, racism, first vision problems, and corporate cover ups that was written in 1970. All of that was exposed before I was born. Yet I was raised in a completely believing family that taught me all the whitewashed BS. I checked all the boxes. I am an 11 of Bob's Mormon Cred Scale. Freaking everything. 2 BYU degrees, paid 500k in tithing, married in the temple, never went to 1st base before. EQP, HPQP, YMP, SYMP, Bishopric, etc.....

It makes me so mad.

Truly no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing.

The persecution that rises only strengthens the beast. Polygamy strengthened generations of followers.

I am in a cult. I want to scream. I cant get out. My oldest daughter is going to BYU in the fall. How can I ruin that for her. I have 4 more daughters who will try to follow her.

I am so stuck. I hate it. I feel like one of those polygamist women on escaping polygamy who runs back to the creek.

FML.

I know you are all there too. Thanks for letting me scream into this abyss.

I feel like we are related. I just took the Bobs Mormon Cred survey (I think version 2) and scored a 100. Yeah, I’ve got Mormon cred and can’t escape this nightmare. I haven’t read NBKMH yet, but will be purchasing it soon. I may have an online copy saved somewhere, but I like the idea of having a nice book in my library.

[RubinHighlander]

Malcom bro! So hard, so painful so Fd up!

We also watched Waco last week. It was so relatable! Lots of the same emotions you had. We are also watching The Handmaid's Tale for the third time. So many parts of that are way too similar to mormonism. It's a tribalistic cultist formula that works way too well with humans.

We watched the first 2 seasons and they were painful on their own merit, but especially as a Mormon.

Is it worth watching the rest? I don't recall if there are 3 or 4 seasons.

Yes, two more seasons with a 5th in the works. June get's into a really dark place for a while, so it doesn't get any less painful but Season 4 ends with a couple of wins for her at least. The writing is brilliant, filming is outstanding; only complaint is the dramatic pauses are sometimes a bit long. But we think this is one of the best TV series shows out there, on par with Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, GOT and West World. Also, check out Prime's "Patriot", that was excellent. Time to dial up the latest season of Rick and Morty!