Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
document wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:12 pm
After I saw the South Park episode, I asked my institute teacher about it. I was told that South Park was making stuff up.
So, shame on me for believing my institute teacher over South Park?
EDIT: Wrote bishop, it was actually my institute teacher. CES paid, baby!
I saw that episode when it first aired ~15 years ago. I thought, "Man, that was so spot on! Except for the rock in a hat detail. I wonder why they ruined the legitimacy of the story by throwing in a random, untrue detail?"
It seems it was a different organization that ruined its legitimacy...
Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:56 am
I saw that episode when it first aired ~15 years ago. I thought, "Man, that was so spot on! Except for the rock in a hat detail. I wonder why they ruined the legitimacy of the story by throwing in a random, untrue detail?"
It seems it was a different organization that ruined its legitimacy...
So funny. I thought the same thing. I even remember telling my non-mo friends that everything was true except the rock in the hat, and I had no idea why South Park put in in there because that is totally not how it happened.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound
This thread brought up a problem I have had with my past as a missionary and as a member. I have often thought of myself earlier in life "lying" in my telling people something that was false. I have to go easier on myself: at no point as an LDS believer did I lie regarding the seer stone or the translation process. I did, however speak falsehoods.
There is a big difference between a lie and a falsehood. A lie is "a statement that is known or intended by its source to be misleading, inaccurate, or false". A falsehood is "the state of being untrue".
As a missionary and a member, I was absolutely spreading falsehoods. However, I was not lying. My source, the LDS church, was absolutely lying to me in presenting alternative versions of the translation process that were untrue. They knew better (they had the seer stone and the sources), but published information to the contrary. I was told that opposing information was inspired by Satan himself.
Moving forward, what have I learned from this experience? I have learned to verify my facts before I start spreading them. I have also learned to avoid organizations that encourage reading only their sources. That is a huge red flag for me.
As George W. Bush said, "Fool me once, shame on, shame on, you. You fool, you can't fool me again".
Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:42 pm
He said it's the members' fault for ever having dreamed up the notion that Joseph actually looked at the plates through a pair of magic spectacles.
I can see where he is coming from. The story had enough elements in it without being embellished by the addition of the Urim and Thummim breastplates from the Old Testament, let alone some fanciful translation goggles. It is enough for the Jetsons to have a flying car, without adding tail fins and laser cannons to it.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha
Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:42 pm
Then came the victim blaming. He said it's the members' fault for ever having dreamed up the notion that Joseph actually looked at the plates through a pair of magic spectacles. The real information was always out there but we chose to invent another story, despite what the records actually say. "Shame on us."
I can't imagine why anyone would think that...
EDIT
AllieOop posted this before me. Great minds must think alike (well... sometimes anyway)
