Sidelined at Son's Baptism - Support

[shadow]

My son is getting baptized this Saturday. My first son was baptized almost 2 years ago by my dad. He'll be doing this one as well. We don't live near family, so getting this essential ordinance done requires that our little family of 6 fly to a different state so a worthy family member can perform it.

All of this because I just can't believe. I didn't baptize my first son because prior to that, I had finally had conversations with my wife about whether I actually believe the priesthood has real metaphysical powers, or is simply the authority of an institution to perform ceremonies for that institution. I also happen to view the administration of that institutional authority as extremely sexist and harmful. So, since I don't believe the priesthood is the actual power of God, she didn't want me performing any ordinances, and I didn't really want to, either.

That doesn't mean that it's not incredibly hard to sit on the sideline for this. How much I wish that my wife could do it, since she believes. Or that she would wish that she could do it instead of accept the status quo. (I REALLY hate that my kids seem to be internalizing this sexist system, too.) Or that kids couldn't be baptized until they're 18. Or that I could just walk away from it. It's incredibly frustrating to still be in this position after years of unbelief, and weeks like this really highlight that.

I've been sidelined for big events a couple of times now. Baptisms. Blessings. Weddings. I'm not in and I'm not out. Ugh.

[Linked]

Wow, this sucks. I'm sorry Shadow. The system is sexist, but being a non-believer is worse than being a woman. (Just typing that sentence made me feel icky; being a woman is not bad, women are awesome people who I respect.) I'm sorry you are getting the shaft from the church and I hope things turn up.

The way things are going I will probably be joining you in a couple years when my kids start having baptisms. I haven't decided if I am going to lie so I can participate in big family events or if I will relegate myself to the sideline.

Hang in there Shadow.

[Red Ryder]

I paid to play.

My child's baptism cost $2,400.

I kept the recommend for the full 2 years and only used it to see the inside of the Nauvoo Temple.

I'll never do that again and plan to sit outside the temple if they decide to marry inside. My integrity is worth more to me now.

Hugs!

[shadow]

I'm still paying to play. It's not cheap to fly a family of 6 to Utah to find a worthy family member. I'll consider that my tithing this year.

The event really is about my son and recognition for him as he reaches milestone ages within mormon culture. He's excited about it, so I'm excited for him, and I really try to focus on and celebrate him.

What is most difficult is how this affects my marriage. I end up feeling a lot of resentment for still being in this position. I wish it weren't so, but I become much less successful at being the husband I should be. I end up becoming emotionally distant, which starts a negative feedback loops where my emotional distance is interpreted as losing the spirit, to which I feel resentful, which results in emotional distance, which is interpreted as losing the spirit...

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

I'm still paying to play, but not renewing my recommend (I have been expired for 3 years now). I just point out to the Bishop that per the handbook a recommend isn't required to baptize, just his sign-off. Slowly it's getting harder to keep this position. That interview was hella awkward, but I stuck to my guns. I'm having my effing cake and eating it too.

[document]

I'm sorry. I went through this as well. I was allowed to baptized my oldest but I could not confirm him. It was humiliating and I felt like less of a father because of it. My wife was fully active, I was an unbeliever stuck. I've been there.

Even though you don't believe, it matters.

My heart goes to you.

(((shadow)))

[MalcolmVillager]

That sucks. I baptized my 4th of 5 girls a month ago. It was my mental finish line. I am not sure if I can make 2 more years for #5, without completely outing myself publicly, causing DW to trump me doing it, or dragging the family out with me.

There is so much shaming with worthiness. I have a BIL who I invited into the circle who is not "worthy" (cheated on my sister) who watched the baptism and then ducked out before confirmation to avoid shame. I felt horrible for him and wish he could have been I there.

So frustrating.

[Corsair]

This is a tough situation. The LDS church is supplanting your role as a father and declaring you unworthy. Their exclusive claim over ordinances of salvation is being used against you.

Can you see any way that this could be a way to have a testimony breaking conversation in the future? At some point, will one of your children ask you, "Why didn't you baptize me?" You then simply have to tell them that the church considered you unworthy, but only based on beliefs, not out of sinful behavior. I recognize that your wife and family might want to craft this narrative on more faithful terms. But at some point you certainly don't need to play along with the story the church wants to tell your children since it implicitly casts you as the bad guy.

This is a story that I (and many others) might be facing in the future and I want to have an explanation prepared that preserves my integrity and forces the institutional church to defend itself.

[shadow]

This is a tough situation. The LDS church is supplanting your role as a father and declaring you unworthy. Their exclusive claim over ordinances of salvation is being used against you.

Can you see any way that this could be a way to have a testimony breaking conversation in the future? At some point, will one of your children ask you, "Why didn't you baptize me?" You then simply have to tell them that the church considered you unworthy, but only based on beliefs, not out of sinful behavior. I recognize that your wife and family might want to craft this narrative on more faithful terms. But at some point you certainly don't need to play along with the story the church wants to tell your children since it implicitly casts you as the bad guy.

This is a story that I (and many others) might be facing in the future and I want to have an explanation prepared that preserves my integrity and forces the institutional church to defend itself.

My dad was inactive for much of my teenage years. I was, however, as devout as ever. We never talked much about it, but I knew that his inactivity was at least partially motivated by problems with the church. When it came time for me to go on my mission, we finally talked about some of his reasons since he wouldn't be able to go through the temple with me. He wasn't much of a historian, but he did bring up the changes to the temple ceremony. He also said that he could probably pay tithing for a couple months and be able to go, but he didn't want to pay to play when his feeling hadn't changed.

I felt a lot of angst about him being inactive and my family not being in the temple together. But despite this, I had a ton of respect for my dad. I felt that he had a lot of integrity in his position. Even though it took me years, and a mission and a temple marriage, I finally started looking more into things and ended up digging quite a bit more than he ever did, I think, and so I'm here, stuck in a church that just can't stay out of my marriage and family relationships. (Ironically, my dad has returned to the church and is the one who will be doing the baptism.)

I haven't crafted a specific conversation in my head to have with my kids, but small conversations like this are already happening. My kids know that I don't have a testimony of the church and that's why I don't do any priesthood ordinances. When they ask questions, I'm still pretty vague about specific issues because they're still young, but I do try to get as many age appropriate facts in without rocking the marital boat. I am, however, straightforward with them that I don't believe.

I don't know if that's a good way to do things, but it's the best I have for now. Just this week my son got new scriptures when he turned 8. He and his older brother noticed the facsimiles while flipping through on our way to church. I explained where the papyrus came from, that they didn't really know how to translate during Joseph Smith's time, but that now we have the rosetta stone which is kind of like a foreign language dictionary, like my spanish-english dictionary. I didn't go into what the academic translation says compared to the Book of Abraham, but I hope I planted enough of a seed that when they really look at it later, the will remember that 1) there is a translation besides the book of mormon (hopefully so they'll compare) and 2) that I know about this and can be a truthful source for information.

It really is a long game. And really, my only objective is that they become happy and healthy adults that know how to think critically and make life choices based on sound reasoning.

[Korihor]

Just a sucky situation all around that I'm sorry applies to you. We are driving to Utah again in early february to attend my nieces baptism since it's too expensive to fly a family of 4.

I'm hoping that we will sufficiently removed from the church by the time my son reaches 8 yrs old that this will not become an issue. But at this rate... who knows.

Sending cyber-support to you shadow. You're an example of love and integrity in my book.

[Batman]

I feel your pain and know exactly what you are talking about. It really sucks...

I recently had an ordination that I could not perform because I don't believe either. I do not hold a recommend, but we do pay tithing. My DW thought I should still do it, saying that it would still be valid even if I don't believe.

I had a long talk with the bp about it and I should probably make a separate post about how that went. End result was me sitting there (with the entire deacons quorum) while grandpa and the other men took care of the ordination with DW and MIL crying.

[shadow]

Returning and reporting:

We had a nice time in Utah. Our families really are great and we usually like spending time with them. The baptismal service was nice. We had a nice musical number with a guitar, so that was a little different. My dad performed the baptism and the confirmation. The baptism went fine. I didn't really have any negative feelings at that point. I went and helped my son change afterward, and his comments were about how it felt weird to be wet in clothes.

The point that was most difficult was the confirmation. My dad did that as well, and the blessing was fine. Nothing happened that was unexpected, but the point that really bothered me was when my mom's bishop, who was conducting, invited all "worthy" Melchizedek priesthood holders to join the circle. So, this ragtag group, including a my cousin's new husband I've never met and the husband of my wife's college roommate, is participating in the ordinance for my son, but I'm not. Their inclusion really hurt and the categorization between "worthy" and whatever the opposite of that is...oh yeah...unworthy...really hurt. I should have expected all of that, but it really struck me in the moment.

There were a couple other church related points from our trip. First, church is different in Utah than it is in Seattle. I couldn't believe the amount of talk about being saved for these days with critical tasks, about foreordination, about strength in numbers. Very self-congratulatory. What was odd was that during that same high-priest lesson, the teacher mentioned that during the past decade, the Cottonwood Heights stake had lost about 600 members, and that they figured that at least 60% of that was due to apostasy. The opening question of the lesson was why can't the church go into apostasy now, like it had in the past, and while they took this thought exercise farther than I would have expected, they didn't ever question why those 60% had actually left. I came away grateful that I don't go to church in Utah, and certain that my tolerability to attendance for my wife's sake would be way less.

The other noteworthy event from church came from my newly baptized son. He went to primary in my step-mom's class. The co-teacher asked at what point how the kids feel when they do good things. They got the normal conditioned response that they feel good when they do good things. Apparently, my son then piped up and said that he likes how he feels when he's bad. He's a bit of a troublemaker, so while I think he was saying that to get a rise our of the class, it doesn't mean it's untrue. When I heard that, I laughed so hard.

[Enoch Witty]

Apparently, my son then piped up and said that he likes how he feels when he's bad. He's a bit of a troublemaker, so while I think he was saying that to get a rise our of the class, it doesn't mean it's untrue. When I heard that, I laughed so hard.

This is my new favorite thing on NOM.

[Newme]

I've been sidelined for big events a couple of times now. Baptisms. Blessings. Weddings. I'm not in and I'm not out. Ugh.

Shadow,
It's completely normal for you to feel left out bummed about not being more part of your son's confirmation.
People really don't realize what it is they do when they call themselves or others "worthy" and others "not worthy."
They're essentially saying that someone's worthiness depends on their ability to worship false gods (church leaders) with the most gusto!

What's cool is that you seem to have a good relationship with your son - and that means much more than being able to kiss a--.
In a way, you bore testimony of the need to be honest, to be true to what's right - even when it's against what everyone else is doing.
That's a good example to your son, IMO.