Dating and Pornography - Ensign 10/19

[SincereInquirer]

Saw this link on another board and clicked through to read it:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... ?lang=eng

Clearly the pressure of having bishops ask the young men about their pornography usage isn't achieving the desired results, so now we need to make sure the young women start asking their dating partners to ensure "worthiness".

I can picture it now:

YM: "Hey, you want to go to a movie on Friday?"
YW: "Before I can say yes, I need to know, do you now, or have you ever, looked at porn?"
YM: "Um...well, um..."
YW: "Well, sounds like that's a yes, so the answer is no. Get thee hence Satan!"

While I do think it is important to be open and honest with your future spouse (and spouse), this feels a bit over the top? I am interested in this groups' thoughts.

[2bizE]

Saw this link on another board and clicked through to read it:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... ?lang=eng

Clearly the pressure of having bishops ask the young men about their pornography usage isn't achieving the desired results, so now we need to make sure the young women start asking their dating partners to ensure "worthiness".

I can picture it now:

YM: "Hey, you want to go to a movie on Friday?"
YW: "Before I can say yes, I need to know, do you now, or have you ever, looked at porn?"
YM: "Um...well, um..."
YW: "Well, sounds like that's a yes, so the answer is no. Get thee hence Satan!"

While I do think it is important to be open and honest with your future spouse (and spouse), this feels a bit over the top? I am interested in this groups' thoughts.

YW continues: Go date Jenny instead. She is a licked cupcake.

[Hagoth]

Another technique for teaching young priesthood holders to lie. If you punish people for honesty their only option is to become skilled liars. Let's face it, in the age of the internet pretty much all young men have seen pornography (and probably the young women this is aimed at too). If you narrow the choices down to only those who haven't you will be marrying your daughters off to the real weirdos. This is also fear tactics for the young men. I see mountains of unhealthy shame in the crystal ball.

[1smartdodog]

Porn I think is a bad thing for young people, but not getting a date could be traumatic. There is enough rejection as a kid. No need to pile it on.

Just why are they so obsessed with porn. I can think a few more things that will bring a young person down faster and harder than porn. Why this obsession with controlling the sex lives of the members.



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[dogbite]

Cue Mormon ya dating non Mormons and leaving church activity. Corollary, more single Mormon women compared to available men, much is already an issue.

[wakarusa]

I count 13 articles in the October Ensign, with "pornography" in the title (at least for the online edition in the app). That seems like a high number of articles even compared to prior obsessiveness on the issue.

[moksha]

YM: "Hey, you want to go to a movie on Friday?"
YW: "Before I can say yes, I need to know, do you now, or have you ever, looked at porn?"
YM: "Um...well, um..."
YW: "Well, sounds like a no and that means you have a low spark and our physical intimacy would be dull and boring!"

[alas]

I heard this several years ago, so this is just the resurrection of a bad idea. When terrible ideas are given second life, they become zombies and wander around eating people’s brains.

One of the biggest reasons that Janna Reese found that women leave the church was that they felt judged. Well, you can’t teach them to actively judge others, without them feeling that they are also being judged. So, really when it comes down to it, actively teaching the YW to be judge and jury on the YM, just increases the whole atmosphere where every body judges every body. And the YW know that the YM are taught to judge the YW on their dress and “modesty” (not modesty at all, but a covered up skin kind of sexiness) Then people can’t stand it because the whole culture is judgmental and condemning. So, they leave.

Dear Church office building spies, the problem of people leaving the church is not porn. It is being taught to judge our neighbors and then in turn feeling like our neighbors are judging us.

[Just This Guy]

I count 13 articles in the October Ensign, with "pornography" in the title (at least for the online edition in the app). That seems like a high number of articles even compared to prior obsessiveness on the issue.

Preview of this next conference's theme?

[Anon70]

I count 13 articles in the October Ensign, with "pornography" in the title (at least for the online edition in the app). That seems like a high number of articles even compared to prior obsessiveness on the issue.

Preview of this next conference's theme?

Yes and UGH. I find it interesting that the leaders keep doing the same things over and over while expecting different results. They’ve been talking about porn for years but in a recent stake meeting I heard that it’s “a bigger problem than ever” well then let’s change our approach! Let’s focus on healthy sexuality and healthy relationships and boundaries and roles etc etc but apparently that’s a no and we’re back to suppression, guilt and moral superiority.

[Not Buying It]

The Church needs porn. It is increasingly facing a world where it has little to offer its members. Porn gives the Church a chance to say "Aha! See! You need us! Without our influence, every male Church member you know would be addicted to porn! Follow us, we can keep you safe from it!"

The Church is going to beat the Porn Drum long and loud, because it plays to the fears of many of its members, and keeps them looking to the Church to help keep them safe from it. In reality the Church is pretty worthless at fighting porn, partly because it refuses to acknowledge porn use is fueled by natural, biological urges - but in terms of energizing its female Church members and guilting its male Church members into staying close to the Church, porn is one of the best things they have.

[blazerb]

Preview of this next conference's theme?

I'm sticking with my prediction in the other thread. I don't think there will be any mentions of porn in GC. I think it's a little too public. Church magazines are much safer. It will be interesting to see what happens.

But the church does want every member quizzing every other member about porn. We have seen the church encourage future in-laws to quiz men about their porn use. It now encourages potential dates. It has told roommates that they have a duty to monitor porn. I have sat in the meetings where GA's tell leaders to ask, "When was the last time you viewed pornography?" I totally agree with this:

The Church needs porn.

[Palerider]

I have sat in the meetings where GA's tell leaders to ask, "When was the last time you viewed pornography?"

You know, the best answer to this question is another question.

"When was the last time YOU viewed pornography???"



"Because we all know that it you've ever viewed pornography you're hooked, right Bishop?!?!"

[Corsair]

YM: "Hey, you want to go to a movie on Friday?"
YW: "Before I can say yes, I need to know, do you now, or have you ever, looked at porn?"
YM: "Um...well, um..."
YW: "Well, sounds like that's a yes, so the answer is no. Get thee hence Satan!"

While I do think it is important to be open and honest with your future spouse (and spouse), this feels a bit over the top? I am interested in this groups' thoughts.

YW continues: Go date Jenny instead. She is a licked cupcake.

YM: Really? I will give her a call...

No matter what you think about pornography, the church gets a lot of social control over obedient members with this issue. I fear that Zadok's rule still applies:

Never confess. Anyone that wants to hear your confession is only going to use it against you. Never confess!

[Not Buying It]

YM: "Hey, you want to go to a movie on Friday?"
YW: "Before I can say yes, I need to know, do you now, or have you ever, looked at porn?"
YM: "Um...well, um..."
YW: "Well, sounds like that's a yes, so the answer is no. Get thee hence Satan!"

While I do think it is important to be open and honest with your future spouse (and spouse), this feels a bit over the top? I am interested in this groups' thoughts.

YW continues: Go date Jenny instead. She is a licked cupcake.

YM: Really? I will give her a call...

No matter what you think about pornography, the church gets a lot of social control over obedient members with this issue. I fear that Zadok's rule still applies:

Never confess. Anyone that wants to hear your confession is only going to use it against you. Never confess!

Yep, Zadok was right. And don't expect what you confess to be kept confidential - unless your bishop is more discreet than most, your confession will be common knowledge after being discussed with all of the leaders who have "keys" over you, and all the other people they talk to about it. Always assume anything you tell a bishop will be told to others.

[blazerb]

I have thought about this overnight. Porn is the perfect sin. It's easily accessible. It's something that is awkward to talk about openly. Most people view it. Most people feel awkward about viewing it. Very few want to admit it publicly. The church can hold it over you forever. The fact that the church creates the environment in which porn thrives is never addressed by the leadership. It's perfect for keeping people in shame.

[John G.]

Wow! What an over the top article on porn! I actually went in the article and read it because I thought the opening post was being sarcastic about the church wanting dating couples to talk about porn together! Absolutely ridiculous! And most of the time completely inappropriate!

On the other hand, I guess a couple could discover they BOTH like porn and can watch it together!

Kind of like bishop interviews, from my youth, when the bishop got all the boys talking about masterbation by asking us all if we did it. Turns out all the older boys did it, and everyone was lying to the bishop! Made me feel alot better! (Not that I did it or anything! At the time, I was 11-12 years old and I hadn’t even hit puberty!)

[MalcolmVillager]

The FSOY booklet talks about avoid an obsession of sex in thought. How can anyone do that with this non stop talking about sex and porn.

Create problem.
Tell them how horribly damaging the problem is.
Convince them they are useless if they experience the problem.
Tell them you are the only solution to the problem.
Insist that resolving the problem is only temporary without the provided solution.
Rinse.
Repeat.

SMH

[Rob4Hope]

Another technique for teaching young priesthood holders to lie. If you punish people for honesty their only option is to become skilled liars. Let's face it, in the age of the internet pretty much all young men have seen pornography (and probably the young women this is aimed at too). If you narrow the choices down to only those who haven't you will be marrying your daughters off to the real weirdos. This is also fear tactics for young men. I see mountains of unhealthy shame in the crystal ball.

I haven't read all the threads on this one yet (and will after I post), but it's interesting to me how un-Christlike this whole approach is. I've been online and seen popups of swimwear which, in my TBM days, I would consider PORN. I've seen billboards in other states that I would consider PORN. So, yeh...I've seen it. Oh wait,...I remember being a young person taking my 'maturation' course in 5th grade and seeing some pictures that cause physical responses in my body--which I didn't understand all that much, but it sure felt good. GAWD....i'm an addict. I know it! ...I have all these GAs telling me the same...."One hit and your an addict.". Remember the add about the pin getting ready to pop the balloon?....there is no coming back from that is there....

What makes me laugh is not the "did you cross the line" aspect of the counsel being given, its the LACK of Christ in the counsel. So,... let's say you have a young woman who wants to date a young man and they have this conversation. Have you looked at PORN? The YM sais: "Yes I have, and I have acted out with it as well. But in my past I felt bad about it, so I've done some very careful soul searching, and with the help of Christ, I've put that in my past. But, so that you know I am NOT a liar, I'm being open about that."

Now, I admit, my example here is OVER THE TOP the other way around! But,...you don't even get to have that option with how the aforementioned dat ais presented. If you look at porn, it doesn't make you BAD. If you are a young woman and had sex, it doesn't make you a "licked cupcake".

MY GAWD...how shameful is this theology!

It amazes me how Christ doesn't seem to have a place in TSCC any more! After all, "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". But, some sins just can't be forgiven....can they.

WTF!?

[Rob4Hope]

Wow! What an over the top article on porn! I actually went in the article and read it because I thought the opening post was being sarcastic about the church wanting dating couples to talk about porn together! Absolutely ridiculous! And most of the time completely inappropriate!

On the other hand, I guess a couple could discover they BOTH like porn and can watch it together!

Kind of like bishop interviews, from my youth, when the bishop got all the boys talking about masterbation by asking us all if we did it. Turns out all the older boys did it, and everyone was lying to the bishop! Made me feel alot better! (Not that I did it or anything! At the time, I was 11-12 years old and I hadn’t even hit puberty!)

The church counsels in "A Parent's Guide" that young people are NOT to talk about sex before marriage. In fact, the article even relegates sex as "mundane" and trivial. (I'm not making this up!). It surprised me that the church has such an anti-sex position. This type of oppression CREATES a problem in marriage and even with this supposed addiction problem.

Now I don't doubt there is potential for sex to become addictive, just like gambling or other behaviors. But, it usually takes a certain environment for that to happen. Addiction loves SHAME (as several of my therapy counselor friends have told me), and TSCC LOVES to create an environment of shame.

I had a bishop who once told me that YW in his ward were into masturbation and PORN almost as much as the YM. I couldn't believe that...after all, "Woman don't do that!". From that experience, I began to wake up to the fact that the misogynistic church had fed me some lines my whole life; one of which was that woman don't like sex.

Imagine my surprise AFTER my divorce where I made friends with several woman who were on the flip side of the whole equation. They wanted more sex in their marriage, and their husband wouldn't put out. I was flabbergasted! The stereotype is so inaccurate.

I hardly ever watch "Dr. Phill"....but something he has said does make sense. It goes something like this: "You need to focus less on what you think is right and wrong and more on what works."

Knew a bishop who found himself in a conundrum. He was told by his Stake President to not get into the bedroom of his members. I think this was good advice. So, he had a man (who I knew because I was good at reading between the lines) who came into his office and said he watched PORN at night because it helped him relax. He didn't know what to do about it. He wanted his wife to know about it, but wanted to make the reveal happen in the bishop's office. (OK...that is just plain weird...ok?)...anyway, the bishop decided he would comply: I don't know his reasons.

The event happened. The woman astonished the bishop. Best response I could imagine. She said: "Why are you hiding this from me!? I'll watch those movies WITH YOU!"

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Bishop's jaw hit the ground, and because he was told NOT to get into the bedroom of the membership, he sent them on their way. This couple had found something that "WORKED FOR THEM!"

So much for the holier than though advice given by these leaders. Some people LIKE PORN, and they use it IN their marriage. Now whether that is right or wrong, I am not gunna say. But this much I know, with over 50% of the marriages in the church failing, and probably the #1 cause being sexual disharmony, seems to me people should stop worrying about making a supposed god happy by being so tight and shameful they deny they have any sexual feelings at all, and maybe try to find ways to work it out together.

Just my $0.02