Seer Stone Video
Seer Stone Video
I'm not sure if this video has been discussed here before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKiJOAWNyAk
Is it just me or can you see this guy internally trying to convince himself that all of this makes perfect sense?
I love the conclusion: "God can speak to Joseph Smith however he wants to, damnit!" Ok, I added the last word, but it's implied.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKiJOAWNyAk
Is it just me or can you see this guy internally trying to convince himself that all of this makes perfect sense?
I love the conclusion: "God can speak to Joseph Smith however he wants to, damnit!" Ok, I added the last word, but it's implied.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Re: Seer Stone Video
I don't know if it was discussed here or not, but yeah it's a complete trainwreck.
And once again they completely lie about the use of the term urim and thummim (not to mention with the U&T actually was).
And the idea that this is like an iphone and the hat is to block out the sun is insane the moment you actually try to think about it critically. I mean... it's country magic and there's no way around it.
And once again they completely lie about the use of the term urim and thummim (not to mention with the U&T actually was).
And the idea that this is like an iphone and the hat is to block out the sun is insane the moment you actually try to think about it critically. I mean... it's country magic and there's no way around it.
Last edited by jfro18 on Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- deacon blues
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Re: Seer Stone Video
I left a comment. Just a reference for a different point of view.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.
Re: Seer Stone Video
There's a level of cluelessness going on that unintentionally makes these two people look weirdly ignorant. Here's a direct quote from the video starting at 3:42:
As usual, there is no reference to the times that Bruce McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith said this was false. There is no explanation why the church avoided the translation details, but options 1, 2, and 3 above are certainly the unspoken reason. Another point that is unlikely to pointed out is how South Park was so astonishingly accurate in how it portrayed the whole process.
Seriously? You "don't know why that is"? This is a ridiculous failure of imagination on their part. A big part of the reason is that it manages a glorious trifecta of looking:Some FAIR Mormon author wrote:"But for some people it's still a little bit uncomfortable to think about that seer stone. Why do you think that is?
"That's a good question. I don't know why that is."
- Incredibly silly
- suspiciously ocultic
- largely like Joseph was pulling a big scam
As usual, there is no reference to the times that Bruce McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith said this was false. There is no explanation why the church avoided the translation details, but options 1, 2, and 3 above are certainly the unspoken reason. Another point that is unlikely to pointed out is how South Park was so astonishingly accurate in how it portrayed the whole process.
Re: Seer Stone Video
This is very well put - I want to print it out and send a framed copy to the church history dept.Corsair wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:45 pm There's a level of cluelessness going on that unintentionally makes these two people look weirdly ignorant. Here's a direct quote from the video starting at 3:42:
Seriously? You "don't know why that is"? This is a ridiculous failure of imagination on their part. A big part of the reason is that it manages a glorious trifecta of looking:Some FAIR Mormon author wrote:"But for some people it's still a little bit uncomfortable to think about that seer stone. Why do you think that is?
"That's a good question. I don't know why that is."Rock in the hat is still not mentioned in the general curriculum. Generations of missionaries told unintentional lies when confronted by this silliness by Evangelicals who of course knew the real story. We will see if the institutional church is brave enough to put this information in the Sunday School "Come Follow Me" manual in 2021 for the Book of Mormon year or 2022 for the Church History year.
- Incredibly silly
- suspiciously ocultic
- largely like Joseph was pulling a big scam
As usual, there is no reference to the times that Bruce McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith said this was false. There is no explanation why the church avoided the translation details, but options 1, 2, and 3 above are certainly the unspoken reason. Another point that is unlikely to pointed out is how South Park was so astonishingly accurate in how it portrayed the whole process.
Re: Seer Stone Video
I'm sure the church history department is well aware of all this.jfro18 wrote:This is very well put - I want to print it out and send a framed copy to the church history dept.
I remember the first time I stumbled across a bit of history that contradicted the official line (I found an old copy of the endowment ceremony containing the Adam God doctrine) and approached a church historian about it. I was convinced this must be a vicious anti-mormon production. No, he explained, it's all valid. He then asked "what are you going to do about it"?
Still not sure what he meant by his question. What do you do when you find out at least some of what you've been taught has been white washed and air brushed? You begin to lose your trust, that's what. Not sure what else a rational person could do.
Maybe become a church historian.
Re: Seer Stone Video
Another issue with the stone in the hat translation process, is where do the plates fit in? If the plates were not used in the "translation" process, then why did Moroni lugged these things 2000 miles to NY?
Re: Seer Stone Video
Seems that this video is assuming viewers will have suffered brain damage prior to watching that would render them malleable to this explanation.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha
-- Moksha
Re: Seer Stone Video
Hey Deacon, I just left a comment, too, but there were no other comments. Hmmmm....deacon blues wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:04 pm I left a comment. Just a reference for a different point of view.
Re: Seer Stone Video
Hey, Mr. Historian, how about I show the complete South Park episode of "All About the Mormons" to the youth in my stake? Is there anything false in the episode? No, there really is not. Is there an equally helpful church video to counter South Park? No, there really is not.Keewon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:55 pm I remember the first time I stumbled across a bit of history that contradicted the official line (I found an old copy of the endowment ceremony containing the Adam God doctrine) and approached a church historian about it. I was convinced this must be a vicious anti-mormon production. No, he explained, it's all valid. He then asked "what are you going to do about it"?
Re: Seer Stone Video
Well... There is the new "Cartoon" Magic Rock™ video...Corsair wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:35 amHey, Mr. Historian, how about I show the complete South Park episode of "All About the Mormons" to the youth in my stake? Is there anything false in the episode? No, there really is not. Is there an equally helpful church video to counter South Park? No, there really is not.Keewon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:55 pm I remember the first time I stumbled across a bit of history that contradicted the official line (I found an old copy of the endowment ceremony containing the Adam God doctrine) and approached a church historian about it. I was convinced this must be a vicious anti-mormon production. No, he explained, it's all valid. He then asked "what are you going to do about it"?
(Yes, South Park is still more accurate.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
Gave up who I am for who you wanted me to be...
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
Gave up who I am for who you wanted me to be...
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Re: Seer Stone Video
Was it deleted? Showed zero comments when I when there.deacon blues wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:04 pm I left a comment. Just a reference for a different point of view.
All I could think of when watching those two mental gymnasts work their way through the TSCC historical obstacle course was "Those poor fools." It was really sad to me because I was there with many of the other issues for so long, like the DNA evidence.
I noticed how hard they pushed the U&T, trying to keep that in there as a credible artifact; then as they talked about what the more accurate artists depiction would look like, JS' face in the hat, the picture they used was him shading out the light from the hat with his hand, but didn't actually have his face down in it. Oh my gods I still can't believe I bought into any of it all those years!
Last edited by RubinHighlander on Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE
Re: Seer Stone Video
I find this part hilarious. Even when they talk about the truth, they are still incapable of actually depicting it in any of their videos.RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:39 pmI noticed how hard they pushed the U&T, trying to keep that in there as a credible artifact; then as they talked about what the more accurate artists depiction would look like, JS' face in the hat, the picture they used was him shading out the light from the hat with his hand, but didn't actually have his face down in it. Oh my gods I still can't believe I bought into any of it all those years!
Even the "Now You Know" animated version doesn't show Joe actually stuffing his face into the hat. Just peering with his head tilted down a bit. Even as they try to tell the truth... They can't.
As already mentioned: Thank Lakshmi for South Park actually showing us the Truth™ because LD$-Inc. seems to be incapable of doing so.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
Gave up who I am for who you wanted me to be...
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
Gave up who I am for who you wanted me to be...
Re: Seer Stone Video
I noticed they used the iPhone comparison. Today I was listening to RFM's Elder Snow podcast and he also brought up the iPhone as an analog to the seer stone. Maybe they should put that thing in an MRI machine and let us see what kind of circuitry is inside. Otherwise a better analogy would be a magic pane of glass that has writing appear on it. But of course, that just takes us back to magic.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Re: Seer Stone Video
The iPhone analogy is silly. I have to note that this explanation would have not worked before Steve Jobs produced the iPhone in 2007. I hope the apostles have appreciation for an atheist like Jobs producing a helpful apologetic explanation. We also note that the iPhone has a brightness setting and I almost never need to go into a dark room to view my phone. Why can a modern corporation produce a bright enough screen and God cannot? Was the Seer Stone battery low after Joseph kept trying to swipe right on Tinder?Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:14 pm I noticed they used the iPhone comparison. Today I was listening to RFM's Elder Snow podcast and he also brought up the iPhone as an analog to the seer stone. Maybe they should put that thing in an MRI machine and let us see what kind of circuitry is inside. Otherwise a better analogy would be a magic pane of glass that has writing appear on it. But of course, that just takes us back to magic.
There is one really good way to clear up this seer stone business. Have Russell Nelson use it successfully. There is no end to things he could translate with it starting with the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. We may not have the plates any longer, but that did not stop Joseph Smith from producing the Book of Moses or from any of the extant Book of Mormon. Prove that the seer stone works and all of the questions will disappear.
Re: Seer Stone Video
Especially considering that the other famous magic rocks in the BoM were empowered by God specifically to produce illumination so those poor Jaredites wouldn't be stuck in floating septic tanks for a year in total darkness.
After all Joseph Smith made it clear that the definition of a seer requires that they possess and use these stones. Isn't Pres. Nelson is sustained twice each year as a prophet, seer, and revelator?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
- deacon blues
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Re: Seer Stone Video
That's weird. I just went back to it and saw my comment but it was the only one.Yobispo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:35 amHey Deacon, I just left a comment, too, but there were no other comments. Hmmmm....deacon blues wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:04 pm I left a comment. Just a reference for a different point of view.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.
- deacon blues
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Re: Seer Stone Video
I’m presuming President Nelson has the keys to operate a seer stone, but with all the other keys he has it might be hard to find the right one.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.
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Re: Seer Stone Video
deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:42 pm I’m presuming President Nelson has the keys to operate a seer stone, but with all the other keys he has it might be hard to find the right one.
It doesn't help that he lot his keys and has been praying for god to help him find them but god is soo backlogged on finding key requests that he has yet to get around to ol' Rusty. God told tried getting them a retractable key chain, but Tommy lost that years ago.
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