I meet with the bishop in a little over a week

[fetchface]

I shared this some time ago on the old board, but my bishop confessed to me at my daughter's baptismal interview that he "almost took my path" when I told him that I had resigned. He said it would be fun to chat some time. He's a really nice guy who I run into all the time taking my kids to dance class.

Anyway, I posted my latest blog post on Facebook a week or two ago and he once again stated that it would be good to chat about stuff. I'm pretty direct and fearless when it comes to these kinds of conversations, so I said, "why not?" So I'm going to meet with him on the 30th. We'll see how it goes.

[StarbucksMom]

Please keep us posted. He is obviously having somewhat of a faith transition, hopefully all goes well for him.

[hiding in plain sight]

I'm pretty direct and fearless when it comes to these kinds of conversations, so I said, "why not?" So I'm going to meet with him on the 30th. We'll see how it goes.

I actually love having conversations with people who think differently than me. But only if they are truly willing to share ideas and listen and not just want to be heard. It sounds like this bishop might be one of those people.

I would love to be a fly on the wall.

[Corsair]

I shared this some time ago on the old board, but my bishop confessed to me at my daughter's baptismal interview that he "almost took my path" when I told him that I had resigned. He said it would be fun to chat some time. He's a really nice guy who I run into all the time taking my kids to dance class.

This could be a better visit than the usual meeting with a stalwart leader that has never had a faith crisis and cannot conceive why anyone would have one. It would be enjoyable to experience that level of empathy.

[Silver Girl]

Please add me to that gathering of flies on the wall. The official term for that would be a 'business' of flies. I like that.

Do you plan to take along copies of anything to share? He sounds like an interesting and thoughtful man - I look forward to the followup report.

[fetchface]

Well, I get the feeling that his "faith crisis" is something he considers to be in the past. I'm expecting, from what short conversations I have had so far, that he is somewhat like Bill Reel in his outlook on the church.

Probably the point I plan on touching on for sure is that I don't see how faith is a virtue. I also plan on talking about the morality that God shows in scripture and how I really feel that the atonement only serves to solve a manufactured problem, or at least that the idea that the tiniest of sins creates some sort of debt that can only be repaid by huge cosmic forces is completely silly. I probably won't dive into church history except to say that the only appropriate reaction when a prophet says that he has been commanded by God to couple with dozens of women is extreme skepticism.

[Silver Girl]

Well, I get the feeling that his "faith crisis" is something he considers to be in the past. I'm expecting, from what short conversations I have had so far, that he is somewhat like Bill Reel in his outlook on the church.

Probably the point I plan on touching on for sure is that I don't see how faith is a virtue. I also plan on talking about the morality that God shows in scripture and how I really feel that the atonement only serves to solve a manufactured problem, or at least that the idea that the tiniest of sins creates some sort of debt that can only be repaid by huge cosmic forces is completely silly. I probably won't dive into church history except to say that the only appropriate reaction when a prophet says that he has been commanded by God to couple with dozens of women is extreme skepticism.

After ponderizing on this overnight, I thought of the same thing you mention in your first paragraph - he may well think he can show you how he reconsidered things and had his faith restored, etc., and by counseling with you, he can convince you to believe Santa is still out there.

Regarding your last sentence, extreme skepticism is mild compared to what I might say (and actually did say to my leaders). It's disgusting to think Smith's actions (or Brigham's, or pick-another-'prophet') were framed as being commanded by God. Ask him how he'd feel if a male leader with that power told him God commanded him to marry his own daughter or granddaughter? That question raised a lot of eyebrows and caused some blanched looks when I posed it to various leaders.

Good luck - if he indeed thinks he's been through a crisis and come out of it & can therefore 'repair' you, maybe he will rethink his own crisis.

[Hagoth]

Tell him we have an empty seat waiting for him here.

[2bizE]

I'm waiting with anticipation for your report. Hope to hear soon how your meet went.

[Korihor]

Soooo, how did it go?

[Silver Girl]

Bump - just wanted to nag FF about that return & report deal we made.

[fetchface]

Well, sorry for keeping everyone waiting for the report.

It wasn't a tense conversation at all. We spoke for about an hour and a half. I felt understood and like I got to genuinely connect with someone. He stated a few times that he was not trying to get me to come back to church. We did not start or end with a prayer.

Basically, the bishop has a lot of the same concerns and ideas that I do, the biggest differences being that he has a positive experience in the church and he believes that "the spirit" (as manifested through strong emotional experiences) might be God communicating with him. He prefers to think that it is. (I hope I am representing his views accurately.)

He admitted that he doesn't feel the spirit terribly often, and feels it frequently when outside of a church setting like listening to music. He admitted that it could all be in his head.

We didn't talk much about historical issues. It was sort of just accepted that there was a lot of weird stuff in the history. I said that the moral contradictions bothered me a lot more than the logical ones. He agreed.

He shared the story of his crisis of faith at a high level. He had a friend ask him some questions that set him into learning things he had not imagined. He did say something interesting and that is that he had a "crisis of science" around the same time. I think this was probably just a crisis of fundamentalist thinking in general. I never had a "crisis of science," probably because I was never a science fundamentalist, expecting perfection or orthodoxy from the scientific community. He is a physicist by trade.

Overall, he seems like a really good guy and I think that people in the ward are probably lucky to have him there. I think if the brethren were like him, the church would be pretty benign and a lot of heartache would be avoided.