New WOW Video

[felixfabulous]

Has anyone seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hQoAnqIt0w

I have a major problem with the way the WOW is taught and interpreted, so it's no surprise this really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm sure it's no surprise to anyone here that there are huge theological problems because D&C 89 says it is not a commandment, yet it's very much a commandment (there is no revelation making it one). The conclusion that hot drinks means tea and coffee is super flimsy and D&C 89 says that beer is good.

I think one of my biggest pet peeves is that all of the science says that coffee is good for you and as the tea and coffee prohibitions get harder to defend, the approach seems to be to add more emphasis to why alcohol is bad and ignore tea and coffee or put forward the really weak argument (presented here) that coffee was a problem because it was used as a cheap substitute for alcohol. This makes zero sense. I was really hoping for a shift in thinking on the WOW, but this is doubling down on the traditional narrative.

[jfro18]

This video doesn't bother me as much as the seer stones since I think the WoW is not something that is foundational to the truth claims of the church, but they leave out a few key things:

1. If God was really directly the members to be healthy, why didn't God tell them to boil water. The lack of the knowledge led to the deaths of early members not long after the WoW was produced.

2. They should be honest and state that beer was OK in the WoW because that's a very uncomfortable truth.

3. They should note that early leaders drank and smoke including Joseph Smith until long after it was produced. As you mentioned, this was not meant to be a commandment but a way to take it easy on certain substances.

And as you said, it totally glosses over the health benefits we've seen from coffee and tea and instead focuses on alcohol. But i do love how they almost admit too much that it's about control.

One thing that was funny is I didnt watch this as I was listening, but glanced down near the end to see this... out of context it looks SO culty and reminded me of a scene in the show Lost where they're forcing a kid to watch videos about how Jacob (their god of sorts) loves us.

[RubinHighlander]

Ug...after reading all the sappy crappy comments on the video I couldn't stand it. I'll probably regret this but I just posted this on there:

Just love how these videos gloss over the details, like how the Saints drank alcohol, even made it and sold it in the Salt Lake valley, long after JS was gone and under the Brigham Young era. Beer was sold right out of the ZCMI mercantile. Mark Twain even talks about the Mormon whiskey called the Valley Tan. Mormon's don't know their true history, they just gobble up a correlated narrative of half truths fed to them by videos like these. They deny the science of the health benefits of tea and coffee in moderation. This supposed health code that Joseph Smith came up with wasn't even an original idea, it was ideas folks from other religions brought into the Mormon faith. Here's a link to a paper written by a professor and church historian at BYU: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N03_80.pdf

Clearly shows the WOW evolved to what it is today and was not what the early saints lived. Now it's just another hoop mormons have to jump through, being treated like children, before they can go to their temples. In modern times we now see the LDS church gutting the medical marijuana bill in Utah, replacing a proposition approved by the public with their own legislation so they can control how a natural herb is controlled and sold in their own proprietary packaging. The people who really need this non-addictive substance for a variety of ailments are still forced to go to the black market. Under the ruse of a non-profit, the LDS corporation uses donations from faithful members to invest billions of dollars into pharmaceutical stocks, while making it's members scrub the toilets in it's buildings. In the meantime Utah has one of the worst rates of opiate drug abuse and more than twice the national average of teen suicide rates, yet the billions in donations do not go to humanitarian aid, only a very small percentage, but goes instead into stocks and lands and temples. At least some of the people in Utah recognize this abuse and want to try and turn the tide of the church interference into its government:

https://gephardtdaily.com/local/rocky-a ... ng-prop-2/

You really think gutting the MJ prop in Utah was about protecting the public? It's about the money, it always is.

[RubinHighlander]

2. They should be honest and state that beer was OK in the WoW because that's a very uncomfortable truth.

3. They should note that early leaders drank and smoke including Joseph Smith until long after it was produced. As you mentioned, this was not meant to be a commandment but a way to take it easy on certain substances.

And as you said, it totally glosses over the health benefits we've seen from coffee and tea and instead focuses on alcohol. But i do love how they almost admit too much that it's about control.

JFRO posted before I did! Nice work bro!

[Random]

I hope both your comments make a difference to many people's way of thinking.

[jfro18]

I hope both your comments make a difference to many people's way of thinking.

They won't... believing members aren't going to get caught up in the history of the WoW.

But honestly the WoW is a mess - coffee alone is so stupid.

Look at the video -- they say hot drinks are understood to be coffee and tea. Now keep in mind that's nothing to do with the "revelation" but just a later interpretation.

But... if coffee is bad because it's hot, then why can't members drink iced coffee or iced tea?

There is no answer that works unless you just admit the WoW is all about control and obedience.

[wtfluff]

My favorite part is where they say Joseph "received the WoW by revelation," and then ignored it for his entire life.

Oh, wait... They forgot the last half of that sentence.

(And literally no other mormon cared too much about the WoW until Heber J. Grant came along...)

[jfro18]

My favorite part is where they say Joseph "received the WoW by revelation," and then ignored it for his entire life.

Oh, wait... They forgot the last half of that sentence.

(And literally no other mormon cared too much about the WoW until Heber J. Grant came along...)

I've always thought it was interesting that the WoW wasn't a temple recommend question until 1921, which was shortly after the church's second manifesto ending polygamy (1904).

Kind of makes me wonder if the church needed something to force members to rally around and obey to once polygamy was gone and many members were upset that the 'new and everlasting covenant wasn't so everlasting afterall.

[wtfluff]

My favorite part is where they say Joseph "received the WoW by revelation," and then ignored it for his entire life.

Oh, wait... They forgot the last half of that sentence.

(And literally no other mormon cared too much about the WoW until Heber J. Grant came along...)

I've always thought it was interesting that the WoW wasn't a temple recommend question until 1921, which was shortly after the church's second manifesto ending polygamy (1904).

Kind of makes me wonder if the church needed something to force members to rally around and obey to once polygamy was gone and many members were upset that the 'new and everlasting covenant wasn't so everlasting afterall.

Yeah, I definitely believe that could have something to do with it. They gotta "Keep MORmONism weird" somehow. If not polygamy and polygamy panties, why not polygamy panties and a supposed "health rule?" It is a bit mind blowing to really think about the tribalism, and "us vs. them" mentality that the WoW instills in true believers.

[Hagoth]

It is a bit mind blowing to really think about the tribalism, and "us vs. them" mentality that the WoW instills in true believers.

It makes me think of that story you told me about when your kids freaked out on vacation when they saw people drinking beer. That and the guy in my ward who blushed the color of a tomato and apologized profusely for accidentally saying the word "coffee" in his talk because he forgot to change it to "Postum" as he had intended.

God provided for us the healthiest possible thing to drink and then forbade it to a tiny little sub-percentage of his children. Maybe the fruit in the garden was a coffee bean? Drinking it will make you wise. Or maybe it's the other fruit - the one that keeps you from dying.

[Mormon 8]

Ug...after reading all the sappy crappy comments on the video I couldn't stand it. I'll probably regret this but I just posted this on there:

Just love how these videos gloss over the details, like how the Saints drank alcohol, even made it and sold it in the Salt Lake valley, long after JS was gone and under the Brigham Young era. Beer was sold right out of the ZCMI mercantile. Mark Twain even talks about the Mormon whiskey called the Valley Tan. Mormon's don't know their true history, they just gobble up a correlated narrative of half truths fed to them by videos like these. They deny the science of the health benefits of tea and coffee in moderation. This supposed health code that Joseph Smith came up with wasn't even an original idea, it was ideas folks from other religions brought into the Mormon faith. Here's a link to a paper written by a professor and church historian at BYU: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N03_80.pdf

Clearly shows the WOW evolved to what it is today and was not what the early saints lived. Now it's just another hoop mormons have to jump through, being treated like children, before they can go to their temples. In modern times we now see the LDS church gutting the medical marijuana bill in Utah, replacing a proposition approved by the public with their own legislation so they can control how a natural herb is controlled and sold in their own proprietary packaging. The people who really need this non-addictive substance for a variety of ailments are still forced to go to the black market. Under the ruse of a non-profit, the LDS corporation uses donations from faithful members to invest billions of dollars into pharmaceutical stocks, while making it's members scrub the toilets in it's buildings. In the meantime Utah has one of the worst rates of opiate drug abuse and more than twice the national average of teen suicide rates, yet the billions in donations do not go to humanitarian aid, only a very small percentage, but goes instead into stocks and lands and temples. At least some of the people in Utah recognize this abuse and want to try and turn the tide of the church interference into its government:

https://gephardtdaily.com/local/rocky-a ... ng-prop-2/

You really think gutting the MJ prop in Utah was about protecting the public? It's about the money, it always is.

Post of the month!

[Mormon 8]

Look at the video -- they say hot drinks are understood to be coffee and tea.

The church has also said that the term 'interest' in relation to tithing is understood to mean 'income'.
They throw meanings at what they want certain terms to mean.

[Random]

Exactly, Mormon 8!

[Random]

I'm all for a) throwing out the WoW as a worthiness question
and b) taking it literally:
1- Not a commandment
2- Hot drinks are not good for you
3- Wine should be used for the sacrament (wine you make yourselves)
4- Mild barley drinks do not mean Postum and Pero.
5- Plants in season
6- Meat when you need it

Zero interpretations and twisting of the words to mean coffee, tea, etc. unless one is also willing to include hot chocolate, broth, and soup.

It was quite the disturbance to me when I began to see more and more people wheat intolerant. I did learn that the wheat we have now has been altered (and has had toxic chemicals sprayed on it) since JS's time - but that makes me think that, if it came from God, it was only for them in their day.

And, I have seen people come totally unglued when they discover that JS drank wine to calm his nerves in Carthage jail.

[moksha]

I think this Brother Jake-style of message delivery is very effective. I would enjoy hearing it used during General Conference occasionally to break up the constant monotony of usual conference talk delivery. Imagine that fanciful story of the navy ensign observing his ship's propellers while being suspended by a giant fishing hook in a tropical storm. That would be fun for youngsters and adults alike.

[sunstoned]

Ug...after reading all the sappy crappy comments on the video I couldn't stand it. I'll probably regret this but I just posted this on there:

Just love how these videos gloss over the details, like how the Saints drank alcohol, even made it and sold it in the Salt Lake valley, long after JS was gone and under the Brigham Young era. Beer was sold right out of the ZCMI mercantile. Mark Twain even talks about the Mormon whiskey called the Valley Tan. Mormon's don't know their true history, they just gobble up a correlated narrative of half truths fed to them by videos like these. They deny the science of the health benefits of tea and coffee in moderation. This supposed health code that Joseph Smith came up with wasn't even an original idea, it was ideas folks from other religions brought into the Mormon faith. Here's a link to a paper written by a professor and church historian at BYU: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N03_80.pdf

Clearly shows the WOW evolved to what it is today and was not what the early saints lived. Now it's just another hoop mormons have to jump through, being treated like children, before they can go to their temples. In modern times we now see the LDS church gutting the medical marijuana bill in Utah, replacing a proposition approved by the public with their own legislation so they can control how a natural herb is controlled and sold in their own proprietary packaging. The people who really need this non-addictive substance for a variety of ailments are still forced to go to the black market. Under the ruse of a non-profit, the LDS corporation uses donations from faithful members to invest billions of dollars into pharmaceutical stocks, while making it's members scrub the toilets in it's buildings. In the meantime Utah has one of the worst rates of opiate drug abuse and more than twice the national average of teen suicide rates, yet the billions in donations do not go to humanitarian aid, only a very small percentage, but goes instead into stocks and lands and temples. At least some of the people in Utah recognize this abuse and want to try and turn the tide of the church interference into its government:

https://gephardtdaily.com/local/rocky-a ... ng-prop-2/

You really think gutting the MJ prop in Utah was about protecting the public? It's about the money, it always is.

Post of the month!

Excellent post. The WoW today serves only as an outward sign of righteousness. Something Jesus wasn't very fond of.

[sunstoned]

Post of the month!

Excellent post. The WoW today serves only as an outward sign of righteousness. Something Jesus wasn't very fond of.

[Thoughtful]

My mom said today that mild barley drinks meant postum. She didnt believe me when I said its talking about beer.

[Just This Guy]

My mom said today that mild barley drinks meant postum. She didnt believe me when I said its talking about beer.

Considering Postum wasn't invented until half a century after the WOW was written, exactly what did it mean to the people in it's day? Also, what does your mom think about the fact that Wine is specifically allowed?

[wtfluff]

My mom said today that mild barley drinks meant postum. She didnt believe me when I said its talking about beer.

Considering Postum wasn't invented until half a century after the WOW was written, exactly what did it mean to the people in it's day? Also, what does your mom think about the fact that Wine is specifically allowed?

Regarding Postum: Exactly. Now we have anachronisms in the D&C!

Also hilarious: Postum is made from roasted wheat bran, wheat and molasses. No barley included.

What "mom" really meant was Pero; Which I highly doubt existed in the 1830's either...