This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
I completely agree that this is a doctrine that attempts to put the LDS church as a critical part of your relationship and burdens the actual relationship. We need to have some talking points to push back when when this foolish "doctrine" gets spouted at some meeting we attend. I foresee some fifth Sunday meeting, ward fireside, or stake marriage and family class when this gets rolled out locally.
First, let's demand scriptural evidence that "Ménage à Ghost" is doctrinal. Next, we ought to politely ask long time married couples in our wards locally to confirm that this worked well in their own relationship. It would also be worth checking that other LDS therapists are entirely on board with these ideas. Ask how these ideas fit with secular marriage counseling.
Barring all that, this "doctrine" is an easy target of parody. Ask if there is a valid spiritual component to, uh, "taking care of business yourself".
Corsair wrote: Barring all that, this "doctrine" is an easy target of parody. Ask if there is a valid spiritual component to, uh, "taking care of business yourself".
Why do you think Jesus had holes in his hands?
The Romans weren't savages! Technically they DID nail him to the cross, but only after carefully inspecting his hands and noticing the very large callouses resulting from years of friction, fasting, and foot washing fetishes.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy
“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga
“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg
Corsair wrote:I
First, let's demand scriptural evidence that "Ménage à Ghost" is doctrinal. Next, we ought to politely ask long time married couples in our wards locally to confirm that this worked well in their own relationship. It would also be worth checking that other LDS therapists are entirely on board with these ideas. Ask how these ideas fit with secular marriage counseling.
The interesting thing is the idea that the Holy Ghost is present/there when having sex is a simple outgrowth of the idea that one should always have the spirit with you. Indeed, the whole idea of the Gift of the Holy Ghost is he's there as a constant companion unless you chase him away (and chasing him away is bad, mmkay?). He's also there when you're using the toilet and it's put in the bin with those usually unspoken consequences of teachings*. Where the whole "Ménage à Ghost" takes a left turn is that he's required to be there for marital intimacy else your intimacy in True No Scotsman style simply isn't true marital intimacy. It goes from don't chase him off (which operates under the assumption he's there**) to having to consciously invoke him.Given the connection between discomfort and 'chasing away the spirit' it for practical purposes goes from not making either party uncomfortable (not perfect advice but not as bad) to making it an actively spiritual experience.
*For instance a common reading of Alma 7:11 means Christ knows what it's like to kill a man in a crack addled craze or what it's like to lust after children. Intellectually pointing that out makes sense but saying it out load will often make members squirm. They like to limit such thinking to what it's like to get cut off in traffic or have your boss yell at you.
**A Mormon should have the spirit with them while they're at work but they probably don't assume they have to feel a burning in the bosom or what have you else they're screwing up at working and a horrible person living a counterfeit life.
I wish sister Nelson would read aloud a specific list of acts that will ensure that the HG is NOT present during sexual intimacy, not only for the inherent entertainment value, but because we are constantly reminded that everything we do is being watched and jotted down in angelic notebooks. Locking the HG outside of the bedroom doors sounds like a nice reprieve.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Don't you all already pray that the spirit be with you before you engage in martial relations? No? Bunch of apostates all of you!
Anyway, there are probably some kinky people out there who might really like the idea of a ghost watching them while they do the marital deed.
"If your children are taught untruths on evolution in the public schools or even in our Church schools, provide them with a copy of President Joseph Fielding Smith's excellent rebuttal in his book Man, His Origin and Destiny."
I think Wendy's talk will just give church members another thing to feel bad about. Now, if any of them have problems in the intimacy department, it's their fault for not being righteous enough to have the spirit with them.
So, in the spirit of experimentation and by the fruits shall ye know, things were getting lusty the other night. At a crucial moment, I looked in her eyes and said, "let's say a prayer and invite the Holy Ghost to be with us during this experience." Totally killed the mood y'all. It did provide some laughs later though.
