I think I want to be cremated...

[græy]

Our bishopric does the usual Spiritual Thought before meeting thing, and tomorrow is my turn. So, that sucks. Worse I'm also conducting fast & testimony meeting, and that makes three times in one day I have to find something I feel ok sharing in front of everyone.

For the bishopric part, boss-man has asked us to do mini-trainings from the church handbooks in place of run-of-the-mill spiritual ponderings. So towards that end I had been reading random sections from handbook 1, when I came across section 3.5.9 on burial clothing. Here is one paragraph just for funsies:

A man’s body is dressed in temple garments and the following white clothing: a long-sleeved shirt, necktie, pants, socks, and shoes or slippers. A woman’s body is dressed in temple garments and the following white clothing: a dress (or a skirt and blouse), socks or hosiery, and white shoes or slippers.

Temple ceremonial clothing is placed on the body as instructed in the endowment. The robe is placed on the right shoulder and tied with the drawstring at the left waistline. The apron is secured around the waist. The sash is placed around the waist and tied in a bow over the left hip. A man’s cap is usually placed beside his body until it is time to close the casket. The cap is then placed with the bow over the left ear and the cap string attached to a loop of the robe on the right shoulder. A woman’s veil may be draped on the pillow at the back of her head. The matter of veiling a woman’s face prior to burial is optional and may be determined by the family.

Note that this is the improved version where the woman's family can choose whether or not her face is veiled. Yay Progress!

The section goes on to say that in some areas, funeral home employees are the ones who will close the casket and that in that case endowed members should remain present to ensure that the clothing is properly in place until the lid is shut.

Also noteworthy, if the region of burial requires bio-degradable clothing, they are available for order through distribution services.

My thought is... WHY?

What purpose does this serve? So that we'll all be dressed exactly the same after the resurrection? So that we don't have to change clothes before ascending into heaven?

Obviously the women's veils are so that men with multiple wives have an excuse for mixing up or completely forgetting their wive's names when they claw their way out of the mud. But other than that, I see no scriptural need for any of it. Especially the bio-degradable option. Humiliating burial styles, and then post-resurrection nudity? Its the worst of both worlds.

[jfro18]

I've told DW I want to be cremated a few times lately and she keeps telling me no... and she has the church to thank for that.

It's stupid. If we're going to be resurrected as our "perfect selves," then wtf different does it make how we're buried? If someone loses limbs, they'll be there in the resurrection, so if I'm cremated then God can put me back together, right?

I don't think she'd bury me in temple clothing, but I don't trust her not to either... so I'd rather be cremated so that if she does want to bury me in temple clothes it would at least look funny.

[Palerider]

Having just buried my father a couple of weeks ago, I can tell you that certain states, counties, countries have different laws and requirements regarding what preparations have been made on dead bodies that are being interred. The church is probably just trying to accommodate the laws in a given area while bringing comfort to the survivors.

In the cemetery where my father was buried a concrete burial vault is mandatory.

As to the question of type of clothing it is all culturally founded. I specifically asked the funeral director if there was any doctrinal basis for burying someone in temple clothing and he said, no. It is totally cultural and wishful thinking. In my estimation it is done more for the comfort of the living than to aid the dead.

We skipped the temple clothing for my dad. It never really meant much to him. He only went twice in the 95 years that he lived.

Anyone who thinks that a body and clothing (whether it is biodegradable or not) just sits in the grave in pristine condition in perpetuity needs to grow up. Decay is fairly rapid and in 25-50 years all you would find are a set of slowly decaying bones and shattered remnants of clothing.

The only reason I might avoid cremation is that someday my posterity might want to visit where my remains are placed, proof that I really did exist at one time.

[alas]

There IS no policy. Case in point, my father was temple endowed, then ex-ed, then Re-baptized. We didn’t know if he had had his temple blessings “restored” or not. We didn’t even know if we are supposedly sealed to him or not. We asked his bishop and the bishop shrugged. WTF? Isn’t that on his church records? I can understand how my mother might not know. They didnt talk. And my mother didn’t care. If religion was his thing, then it was his thing and don’t bother her with it. But his bishop didn’t know. We asked, well, do we bury him in temple clothing or not? His bishop said it didn’t matter. It doesn’t matter??????? The whole church thing is all about temple and when it comes to a person’s death, none of it matters??? I asked my bishop. He said, how do you feel? I laughed. My bishop knew my dad sexually abused me and if he was going to the CK, then I was going somewhere else thankyouverymuch. My bishop asked if anyone in the family cared. Well, maybe my oldest brother. He and I were the only two out of seven still active. My bishop says, “then don’t.” So we didn’t. He looked SO much better in his favorite cowboy shirt with his Stetson in a wheat bouquet on the coffin.

The church social pressures young people that hell will freeze over if they are not sealed, and yet the church doesn’t even KNOW if a father is sealed to his family or not. Well, if y’all want him to be sealed to you then he is. Hell, I always thought it mattered if the paper work was done properly with proper witnesses, all the i’s dotted and all the t’s crossed. By the proper authority and all. But when it comes down to it, the church doesn’t care or keep track. Sure, my dad is a strange case where 90% of his family would rather not spend eternity with him, but the church gives divorced people so much crap about still being sealed and it is so hard to get a sealing cancellation. Yet the whole time my father was excommunicated, I could not get a straight answer to if I was sealed to him or not. Then when he was re-babtized, I couldn’t get a straight answer if this restored him temple blessings or not. He apparently didn’t ever start wearing garments again, but are we supposed to/allowed to bury him in temple clothes? Whatever.

Also, some countries require cremation and in those countries the endowed person is cremated in temple clothing. So, the church is not against cremation. It is just stuck in the mud traditional. And traditionally, in American culture, people were buried in their best clothing as if they will pop out of the ground and go to church.

[Meilingkie]

Cremation is not a problem.
You can get burned up quite fine.
The biodegradable-templestuff is Paper, yes paper.
In Holland graves get emptied after 10 years (unless you pay for an extension which is thousands of dollars)

Emptied meaning they dig you up again, and toss whatever remains into a massgrave.
Problem was that the regular templeclothing did not decompose and was also dug up, defiling it.

Hence the policy.

[Random]

Wow, Meilingkie, I totally did not know any of that!

[Random]

I've wanted to be cremated for a long time. Since the church discourages it (and there was some superstitious teaching I was exposed to in my younger years about it being harder to resurrect a body that has been burned to ashes), I thought I was sinning to want it.

But, now - that's what I want, hands down. Being an ex member, no one is going to put me in temple clothing, but even while I was still a member, I told my kids I did not want a bishop in charge of my funeral. Anyway, the instructions (which I probably should write down) are to cremate me, have a get-together where they sing, talk, and have fun. I don't need to be the focus of attention.

[wtfluff]

One (funny) reason I heard for all of this craziness is that "We don't want to make Elohim's job any harder come resurrection time!" I never really thought about it when I was in, and now, of course, that sounds quite silly.

I'm definitely on the side of wanting to be cremated now. And skip the baker's hat an toga also please! There's absolutely no reason to spend a bunch of money on me after I'm dead. Scatter my ashes over the ocean or a mountaintop. I do own a plot of land in a cemetery, I guess if my kids want to visit what's left of my carcass (which I highly doubt,) they could bury a teaspoon of my ashes there.

The only reason I might avoid cremation is that someday my posterity might want to visit where my remains are placed, proof that I really did exist at one time.

You can have your ashes interred in a cemetery if you think your kids will want to visit a grave-site. (I've attended such funerals. I'm sure it's much cheaper to inter a small container than it is a casket.)

If your kids really want you around after you're dead, they could put your ashes in your favorite shoe-box and pass you around on a schedule.

[moksha]

I was exposed to in my younger years about it being harder to resurrect a body that has been burned to ashes.

I think the decaying body parts being eaten by worms then excreted into the soil to be further broken down by bacteria and repeated in an endless cycle of organic nutrients renders to body easier to recompose in the Celestial Transmaterialization Chamber than a pot of ashes. This is the same process that makes coffee beans highly sought after by enthusiasts after the beans have passed through the digestive tract of civets. Something about poop and electromagnetic resonance in the transmaterialization. For further readings about the transmaterialization of poop, please consult the archives of FAIRMormon.

Hope that helps.

[græy]

As to the question of type of clothing it is all culturally founded. I specifically asked the funeral director if there was any doctrinal basis for burying someone in temple clothing and he said, no. It is totally cultural and wishful thinking. In my estimation it is done more for the comfort of the living than to aid the dead.

I agree, the whole thing is completely symbolic and intended to comfort the still believing, presumably grieving survivors. But that just makes other parts of the handbook seem strange.

Only members who were endowed in life may be buried in temple clothing. An endowed person who stopped wearing the garment before his or her death may be buried in temple clothing if the family so requests. However, persons whose blessings have not been restored after excommunication or name removal may not be buried in temple clothing. A person who was endowed in life and who died by suicide may be buried in temple clothing.

In other words, a person can leave the church, live a life of debauchery including such heinous crimes as wearing fruit-o-the-looms, and still be buried in temple clothes. But if you lose leadership roulette and get ex'd for publishing a book about verifiable church history, you lose that "blessing."

Just... blah. So much pomp and manufactured significance that really doesn't yield one ounce of sense or value.

There IS no policy.

I'm sorry to hear they gave you the runaround like that. You're 100% right though, they don't have any rules or policies that make any degree of sense for fringe cases like yours, so everyone just assumed "God will work it out." It's code for, "God hasn't ever told us anything that really seems workable in the long-run so just try not to think about the details too much and accept the simple case as printed here in our manual."

[græy]

Something about poop and electromagnetic resonance in the transmaterialization. For further readings about the transmaterialization of poop, please consult the archives of FAIRMormon.

It's all bull plop!

Hope that helps.

I do feel better now. Thanks for the laugh!

[Palerider]

Only members who were endowed in life may be buried in temple clothing..... .....persons whose blessings have not been restored after excommunication or name removal may not be buried in temple clothing.

This is such a BIG BLUFF...

What non-lds funeral home is going to give a tinker's damn whether someone is buried in Mormon temple clothing?

Anyone can go out and hunt up some temple clothing and have their deceased dressed that way if they so choose.

What's the church going to do, have their secret church police jump up from behind the flowers and say, "Hey, you can't do that!!!"

The church loves to play this "That's not allowed card". Even when it's a non-doctrinally based issue. Why???

Because it puts them in a position of power and authority. And it really chaps their hide when someone takes away that authority and power by telling them to take a hike.

Speaking of that, I still have my temple clothes stored away somewhere in the house. Maybe I'll tell my kids to have me buried in them and have my hands clasping a bottle of Budweiser and three doobies just to rile up some of those tightly wrapped Mormons who might attend.

[græy]

Speaking of that, I still have my temple clothes stored away somewhere in the house. Maybe I'll tell my kids to have me buried in them and have my hands clasping a bottle of Budweiser and three doobies just to rile up some of those tightly wrapped Mormons who might attend.

I would really love to see some of those reactions!

[sunstoned]

you can be cremated and still have a headstone in a cemetery.

[Meilingkie]

I have had a cold marriage for 20 years.
I’d like to be hot for at least once. Burn!!

[1smartdodog]

Viking funeral for me. But my wife and I have a pact. Whoever goes first the other gets to decide.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Red Ryder]

I want to be plasticized and paraded around major metropolitan cities as part of the Bodies Exhibit.

[moksha]

I want to be plasticized and paraded around major metropolitan cities as part of the Bodies Exhibit.

The vivisected slices could be more easily reconstituted in the Celestial Transmaterialization Chamber at the Intergalactic Medical Center in Joseph City on Remulac-near-Kolob, than either the burial or cremation methods.

Once the CTC replaces the DNA with its perfected counterpart, Red Ryder will be fully transformed into Homo Superiorus Resplendans and will be eligible to stand in the waiting line for his own planet, followed by the ordering queue for Sister-Wives to start the eternal reproductive process for Red Ryder Planet.

[Corsair]

I have told my wife and children that I want a viking funeral pyre, preferably on a boat headed out to the open ocean. They know I'm more than half serious, but I would have the huge regret that I really won't be around to see it. Barring that, I would prefer to be composted. I certainly don't want any embalming process.

I want to be plasticized and paraded around major metropolitan cities as part of the Bodies Exhibit.

Can you donate your body to science fiction?

[oliblish]

The last funeral I went to was for a woman in a very active LDS family. I was surprised to find out she had been cremated. This is in an upper-middle class neighborhood in Utah County. I didn't hear anyone say anything negative about it. Maybe cremation is becoming more acceptable in the church...