New blog post- "But My Experience Was So Good!"

[BriansThoughtMirror]

I wrote a new post, and it's one I've been working over for quite a while. I wanted to convey the idea , in a non-threatening way, that when we have had really good experiences in the church, that it can be very easy to negate the traumatic or damaging experiences of others. If a person has had good experiences, that's wonderful, and I don't want to take those away. I do, however, want to inspire some empathy for people who have had a different experience.

In the post, I look at this issue by examining another religious group- Regnum Christi, which is a small movement within Catholicism. I believe this post should be believer-friendly. I really tried to make the point without being alienating.

Anyway, I hope it's useful for someone!

Link-
https://briansthoughtmirror.wordpress.c ... s-so-good/

[Wonderment]

Thank you for this very well-written, articulate essay ! I think you've composed an objective and comprehensive description of high-demand religious sects and organizations, along with providing the reasons that some believers are attracted to them. Why do these organizations work so well for some people and yet seem so toxic to others? I think it depends upon personality, willingness to accept authority figures without question, and past experiences in life. These fundamentalist organizations, whether they are evangelical, Catholic, or restoration churches like COJOLDS do not work for me at all, because I feel as if I have to cede so much intellectual autonomy to them. But, as you point out, some people see nothing but goodness and honor in them. - Wndr.

[BriansThoughtMirror]

Thanks for your kind words, and thanks for reading! My intent was really not to say the group as a whole was bad... I hope it didn't come off that way. My main point was really that a group- any group- can be really good for some people, and yet still do harm to others. It's not all good or bad.

Do you think it came off as accusing?

[Newme]

Yes, that was useful, thank you!
My TBM sister & I were laughing at how our dad & his siblings would argue about “what really happened” 50+ years ago. But it was a little bitter laugh for me because it can be so painful to be condemned based on misunderstandings and lack of empathy. Yet, once upon a time, I was that naive, judgmental TBM.

Maybe it comes down to personality type or one’s loyalty to truth over people/organization. This “whistle-blower” tends to rock the good ship - and many want to shoot the messenger, which isn’t fun for the messenger.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/ee/53 ... fd998c.jpg

[deacon blues]

This is a wonderful piece. I think of Boy Scouts. Some kids seemed to thrive in it, and for others like me, it was OK. I felt bad for the two brothers in my Explorers group whose dad insisted that they couldn’t get their drivers licence until they were Eagles. They were great kids and it all worked out, but it reminded me of what I felt as a kid— Scouts wasn’t an good program for everyone, but everyone was expected to do it

[BriansThoughtMirror]

I think of Boy Scouts.

I really loved Boy Scouts, for the most part. I loved the campouts, the projects, and especially summer scout camp and high adventure trips. Even though my ward's troop was pretty dysfunctional, I really have great memories of it. I was actually really sad that the church bailed on Scouts, because now it is really unlikely my son will have those experiences. Scouts was one of the few "church" activities that wasn't all churchy.

Aaaaand, just as I had this piece about finished, I ran across some news about sex abuse in Boy Scouts. I felt sick. What's more, I actually felt myself empathizing with the Scout organization, and rooting for them. But I can't ignore that kind of damage! If they don't survive the scandal, well, I guess they don't deserve to.

Oh, yeah, my parents did the "can't drive until you get your Eagle" thing. Didn't drive until I was 18, and never really learned the freeways in my own hometown before moving away! That was definitely on my list of things not to do to my kids, haha. But that's absolutely nothing in the face of what happened to some kids.

And, thanks, btw!

[BriansThoughtMirror]

Maybe it comes down to personality type or one’s loyalty to truth over people/organization.

I definitely think some personalities do better in the church than others. It seems to be true of Regnum Christi, too. I think, aside from sexual abuses, that the same sorts of people who are damaged by the LDS church were damaged by RC.

[moksha]

I definitely think some personalities do better in the church than others.

If robots were to join, I think Decepticons would do the best personality wise.

[Wonderment]

Do you think it came off as accusing?

Nope ! Not at all. You actually gave them the benefit of the doubt far more than I would have. Your essay was very fair and objective, IMO.

[hmb]

Well written. Up front with no finger-pointing. Everyone should identify with some part in your blog.

I think of Boy Scouts.

I really loved Boy Scouts, for the most part. I loved the campouts, the projects, and especially summer scout camp and high adventure trips.

And...I'm was resentful for not getting to participate in the scouting program. When I was a YW leader, I fought for better than a 5 day girl's camp. White water rafting, high sierra camping, etc. I was shot down every time. Nope. Girls stay local and have their week of camp. Monday through Saturday. Saturday was just for traveling home, so 5 days of activities. I got to be in charge of crafts. I like crafts, but not when we could be doing something adventurous. Too dangerous. What it really was was no funding/interest.

[BriansThoughtMirror]

And...I'm was resentful for not getting to participate in the scouting program. When I was a YW leader, I fought for better than a 5 day girl's camp. White water rafting, high sierra camping, etc. I was shot down every time. Nope. Girls stay local and have their week of camp. Monday through Saturday. Saturday was just for traveling home, so 5 days of activities. I got to be in charge of crafts. I like crafts, but not when we could be doing something adventurous. Too dangerous. What it really was was no funding/interest.

Dang... That's another thing I was totally blind too while I was shooting guns and having fun. I'm sorry!

[alas]

Well written. Up front with no finger-pointing. Everyone should identify with some part in your blog.

I think of Boy Scouts.

I really loved Boy Scouts, for the most part. I loved the campouts, the projects, and especially summer scout camp and high adventure trips.

And...I'm was resentful for not getting to participate in the scouting program. When I was a YW leader, I fought for better than a 5 day girl's camp. White water rafting, high sierra camping, etc. I was shot down every time. Nope. Girls stay local and have their week of camp. Monday through Saturday. Saturday was just for traveling home, so 5 days of activities. I got to be in charge of crafts. I like crafts, but not when we could be doing something adventurous. Too dangerous. What it really was was no funding/interest.

When I was YW leader, I point blank asked why the YM could travel 1,000 miles to go do something exciting while the YW were not allowed to go 100 miles and absolutely no adventure type of activity. Girls got crafts in the 120 degree San Antonio summer, while the boys got white water rafting in Idaho. Simple reason, the boys were insured by the BSA, while the girls fell under the church insurance. So, if a boy died white water rafting Orin a car accident on the way up, the BSA got sued. But if a girl was injured, the church was ultimately liable. They are too damned cheap to insure the girls for any kind of activity, so the girls got to die of heat exhaustion in the south Texas desert, while the boys did something fun. It wasn’t sexism at all, but insurance. The church was willing to cough up money to pay the BSA to have the boys insured. But they simply were not willing to do anything for the girls. Camp was torture, not fun, while the boys were off having a blast, the girls were passing out from the heat. And of course, when the first girl got sick, they canceled the rest of camp. Not because THEY were stupid idiots about the heat in Texas, but because the girls must be such delicate flowers that they just can’t handle camp. I was furious. But next year, same crap. The boys went off somewhere in the mountains and the girls were not allowed to go more than 50 miles from home. So, the girls suffered in the heat and the boys had a great camp out.

[BriansThoughtMirror]

So, if a boy died white water rafting Orin a car accident on the way up, the BSA got sued. But if a girl was injured, the church was ultimately liable. They are too damned cheap to insure the girls for any kind of activity, so the girls got to die of heat exhaustion in the south Texas desert, while the boys did something fun. It wasn’t sexism at all, but insurance. The church was willing to cough up money to pay the BSA to have the boys insured. But they simply were not willing to do anything for the girls.

Wow, I never realized that! That is some serious inequity. Is that still how it works? Is that how it works for every ward? Man...

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

The issue of scouts covering insurance for accidents has me believing the multi-billion dollar corp will make sure the replacement program will be highly restrictive for liability reasons. For hells sakes, the church cleaning supplies have to be so non-toxic that you could drink them and not get injured. They will never allow high adventure activities post scouts.

[Corsair]

In the post, I look at this issue by examining another religious group- Regnum Christi, which is a small movement within Catholicism. I believe this post should be believer-friendly. I really tried to make the point without being alienating.

That was a very thoughtful post. These incidents with Regnum Christi had the benefit of the parent organization acknowledging the problems after Fr. Maciel had passed. This is the kind of thing that whistle blowers so often face. Justice delayed which is virtually justice denied.

This is the exasperation that we all feel from never having the emotional closure we would like to have. It's weirdly compounded when the LDS church does something ostensibly good but fails to acknowledge the pain they might have cause in the past. In the past year alone we have seen:

• Two hour church
• missionaries can call home
• sisters can wear pants
• no more civil marriage penalty
• Children may have a parent with them in interviews with the bishop
• BYU HCO promises to allow facing accusers and full knowledge of violations

This list could go on and these are all actually good moves. But at no time has the LDS church acknowledged or apologized for the pain that each of these items have caused. Instead we get the gas lighting excuses of "it's great that the prophet has revealed these new policies under guidance from God!"

I was never truly harmed by all the old policies preceding each of the above changes. But these have all chipped away at my interpretation of my LDS experience and now I can see that maybe I was just lucky. And perhaps my experience was actually not so good.

[BriansThoughtMirror]

Yes it was interesting how RC, the Legion, and the Catholic Church all apologized profusely after the truth came to light, and even apologized for the way they handled it all (even though they apparently continued to handle similar things quite badly, even up until very recently). I also recently saw the larger southern Baptist organization apologize for its failures in similar situations. But, the LDS church really never apologizes. The cynical part of me feels like it can't because that would undermine its authority over believers. It would ruin the impression of infallibility that they so carefully cultivate, but deny cultivating.

[hmb]

Insurance! That should be so obvious. It's always about the $$. Since the boys are no longer under the "protection" of the BSA, will they have to stay local with less than exciting activities? I sure hope not, but I wish they would elevate the girls to the same level of activities. Combine some activities and pay for an equal amount of insurance.