Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

[deacon blues]

My first 2 thoughts.1- Good for them. 2- What will my grand kids want to do? It will be interesting to see how things play out in Utah. I did note these instructions: "when possible leaders should encourage couples to be both married and sealed in the temple."

[Meilingkie]

Finally!
Now time to start pushing for the USA to follow the world by going metric

[wtfluff]

It's been just over a month since I stood outside and greeted my son and his new bride as they exited the temple, from a wedding that I was excluded from.

I am, of course, SO GLAD that this will no longer have to be the experience of non-member or inactive family members going forward. But I don't have words for the outrage and anger I have over the unnecessary pain and hurt of all of us who've already gone through it. (Did you know there is literally such a thing as "seeing red"? Until today I thought it was figurative). I'm so DONE with this organization -- was any explanation or apology or anything offered to accompany this announcement? As I said, I approve the change, but I'm physically shaking with anger over all that's been taken from me by this So-Called Church.

You said it MUCH better than I could Fifi. Almost 5 months to the day for me. The words that my fingers want to type don't belong here on NOM, I guess I'll need to vent those on "some other" message board.


I'm also curious how tithing revenue figures into this equation. LD$-Inc. has to have "run the numbers" and figured out that most family are no longer willing to pay their past Masonic temple dues to enter and watch the 3-minute creepy ceremony, so this change will not effect the bottom-line. (I know I have mentioned the 5-minute creepy ceremony in the past, but after watching a certain NNN video in the recent past, the sealer actually said something like "this is only going to take 3 minutes" out loud...)



Edit:

It would be better if the church would just get out of the marriage business altogether.

The conspiracy theorist inside me thinks that this is also part of the reason for the change. This makes it much easier for LD$-Inc. to completely get out of the civil wedding business at some point in the future, so the absolutely never, ever, ever, ever "have to" perform a gay wedding in their creepy building. (I'm pretty sure there's no way to "force" them to do it, but I do think they fear it...)


Edit, Edit: Other folks are also mentioning this is quite a good distraction to avert folk's attention from the Vice story.

[MoPag]

Here are my thoughts:

-Wow this is great

-But I'm sad for all the people and especially NOMies (Fluff and Fifi) who were stuck on the outside while their loved ones were getting married.

-I hope a civil wedding first becomes the norm. But a very cynical part of me sees a temple only wedding turning into some kind of uber TBM virtue signaling. Like "Oh No, they are doing a temple sealing only, because our whole family is so super righteous."

-Also could this mean that modest wedding dresses wont be needed? Unless the bride is an RM, she could get married in a sleeveless dress, then go through the temple and get sealed the next day. And it would all be kosher with the church.

-Que TBMs gushing on FB about "continued revelation."

[Linked]

Fifi and WTFluff, that is so frustrating. I'm sorry the church causes such personal pain.

I will grant that this is good news overall. It also reduces the need for me to maintain a temple recommend for my one child most likely to get married in the temple.

I'm sure that the full temple marriage will continue to be the gold standard for Mormonism. But this will avoid a lot of hurt feelings when a convert gets married and excludes their family from the ceremony. They can still have the ceremony and just do a formal sealing later on. My next interest is how this will be relayed to the youth. I will probably be the bad guy to bring this up in my ward.

I also wonder how this will be presented to the youth. I think at first, it'll still be emphasized that they only marry in the temple. But I honestly believe over time, it will become very appealing and acceptable for youth to have a beautiful wedding (where they can be walked down the aisle, bridesmaids and groomsmen, groom watching, etc.....and not have to cover their beautiful wedding gown with masonic garb....and so on) and then go later to get sealed.

I'm really hoping this will be the norm by the time my grandkids get married.


***************************

I wonder if the wedding dresses will become less garment approved as well. Wedding first, endowments and sealing later that week. The uber TBMs wouldn't do that, but the less uber ones may.

ETA - Ninja'd by MoPag

[wtfluff]

Fifi and WTFluff, that is so frustrating. I'm sorry the church causes such personal pain.

I will grant that this is good news overall. It also reduces the need for me to maintain a temple recommend for my one child most likely to get married in the temple.

I'm sure that the full temple marriage will continue to be the gold standard for Mormonism. But this will avoid a lot of hurt feelings when a convert gets married and excludes their family from the ceremony. They can still have the ceremony and just do a formal sealing later on. My next interest is how this will be relayed to the youth. I will probably be the bad guy to bring this up in my ward.

I also wonder how this will be presented to the youth. I think at first, it'll still be emphasized that they only marry in the temple. But I honestly believe over time, it will become very appealing and acceptable for youth to have a beautiful wedding (where they can be walked down the aisle, bridesmaids and groomsmen, groom watching, etc.....and not have to cover their beautiful wedding gown with masonic garb....and so on) and then go later to get sealed.

I'm really hoping this will be the norm by the time my grandkids get married.


***************************

I wonder if the wedding dresses will become less garment approved as well. Wedding first, endowments and sealing later that week. The uber TBMs wouldn't do that, but the less uber ones may.

ETA - Ninja'd by MoPag

The smart kids will do the creepy LD$-Inc. ceremony AFTER the honeymoon. (GARMENT-FREE HONEYMOON FTW!!!)

[Not Buying It]

And like they always do, the Church makes a sorely needed change with no hint of apology to those harmed by prior practice or policy. Luckily, they will never need to apologize to Mitt Romney, who had the connections to get this before the rest of the membership did a few decades later.

But everyone else who ever forced a father, mother, brother, sister, or other friend or family member to miss a wedding because it had to be in the temple of they'd have to wait a year to be "sealed" - yeah, the Church owes some big apologies, and rather coldly pretending it doesn't feels wrong.

[crossmyheart]

I will grant that this is good news overall. It also reduces the need for me to maintain a temple recommend for my one child most likely to get married in the temple.

And this is exactly why it took so long to make the change.

They know that people, particularly millennials, are not bowing the knee anymore, and they are reluctantly giving up their control mechanisms one at a time in an attempt to stop the bleeding. I think it's a day late and a dollar short, like the temple changes, but I too grant this is a good change.

You know who I feel bad for? Recently a new convert I know proposed to his girlfriend of several years after his one-year wait period, and low and behold, today there is no wait period. That poor dude.

This is good news. DW said the church is making it easier to leave the church.

My first thought was what if this backfires on the church? Now people don't have to live so tightly wound up all the time. This actually could lead to more people making the slow fade.

[Fifi de la Vergne]

. . . People will have to truly make it a secular event and then take it to the temple.

And you know what? That would be the ideal, both from the church's perspective and from the couple's. There are so many sad stories of bishops who performed the civil ceremony but took the occasion to shame the couple for not marrying in the temple first . . . the church should emphasize the fact that a civil wedding and a temple sealing are two completely different things. The civil ceremony is an occasion for loud laughter and celebration and rejoicing, while the sealing can be a reverent, spiritual event. Win:win.

[Not Buying It]

If you'll forgive the link to Reddit, someone there suggests this was a way of diverting press from the Vice News story, and I think there is something to that:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... teresting/

[græy]

This is good news. DW said the church is making it easier to leave the church.

Happily, she's not wrong.

[græy]

It's been just over a month since I stood outside and greeted my son and his new bride as they exited the temple, from a wedding that I was excluded from.

I am, of course, SO GLAD that this will no longer have to be the experience of non-member or inactive family members going forward. But I don't have words for the outrage and anger I have over the unnecessary pain and hurt of all of us who've already gone through it. (Did you know there is literally such a thing as "seeing red"? Until today I thought it was figurative). I'm so DONE with this organization -- was any explanation or apology or anything offered to accompany this announcement? As I said, I approve the change, but I'm physically shaking with anger over all that's been taken from me by this So-Called Church.

You said it MUCH better than I could Fifi. Almost 5 months to the day for me. The words that my fingers want to type don't belong here on NOM, I guess I'll need to vent those on "some other" message board.

I wanted to add that I feel for you Fifi and Fluff. This is the reason why the church NEEDS to issue apologies. They harm, and they just don't care until it starts to harm their image or revenue.

[Not Buying It]

For those who haven't seen it, this change is on Bill Reel's list (see https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... elson_fix/), apparently they are ready to whip one of these babies out any time they are in danger of a major negative story in the press:

BillReel
12 points ·
1 hour ago

FYI as a reminder (asterisk next to means it is already happened or showing significant signs)

Changes allegedly being discussed at present inside the Church Office Building

These changes are being discussed which means some will happen and some won’t. Some will likely happen in the next year or two and others will trickle in over the next decade or two. Also simply discussing these compels the Church to push them back

Church trying to make room for members to partake of Coffee and Tea

Having the Garment worn inside the temple only

* 3. To revamp the Missionary system making Service Missions and/or Local Missions prominent

4. Decentralize the financial responsibilities of the Church geographically.

5. Women will be given significant increased roles (Women giving blessings to be formally seen as approved), recent change for Mothers of Young Children to serve as ordinance workers for example of a small change heading that direction.

*6. Increase dramatically in visible charitable giving to outside charities and outside humanitarian efforts

7. Changes to the office/mode of operation of Patriarch being discussed

8. Heavenly Mother will be given a significantly increased role in the conversation and theology within correlated Mormonism.

9. Significant changes made to ensure Bishops and Stake Presidents receive significant training. (Anything from multiple weeks of in-depth training to even a full-time trained clergy in regards to Bishops and Stake Presidents)

* 10. RS General Presidency continually has its visibility increased and effort made to add value to their voices and the voice of women. (while maintaining the top 15’s own authority and nepotism to ultimately lead the Church)

11. Create a group of women that would act similarly to the quorums of Seventy (travel and be involved in committees and have a voice in decision making at levels lower than the top 15)

12. Age for women going on missions to be lowered to 18 as well or men moved back up to 19 to make them equal in this regard.

* 13. Separate Marriages from Sealing to allow a couple to be married publicly and sealed immediately afterward in a separate act.

14. Additional Policy adjustments to protect the Church’s public image in Sex abuse cases.

15. Your going to see further adjustments to the scriptures to remove sections of language from the D&C, heading etc. and or add in language to headings ect. to confront the growing evidence against the former claims of the Church and a growing discomfort with our overreaching.

16. The Ward Library and the calling of Librarian eliminated in areas that have quality access to technology.

17. Adjust callings that have room to not require Priesthood to allow for female leadership (Ex: Sunday School Presidency)

18. Do away with or control who speaks in Fast and Testimony Meeting

19. Allow equivalent aged Girls to pass the Sacrament where the congregation lacks adequate priesthood.

20. Remove multiple cultural boundaries imposed as Mormonism but which are acknowledged as American culture and unnecessary. (Ex: allowing a wider range of instruments used in Church meetings)

* 21. A New Handbook of instruction is coming

22. Temple Recommend bar-codes will be connected to a photo so the uses of recommends by someone other than who the recommend belongs to can be thwarted.

23. Young Adult/Older Teen service Projects away from home that give a young member a significant experience making the world better but also connected directly to the Church. A mini service mission per say

* 24. There are now concrete discussions occurring asking how we move towards more inclusivity towards LGBTQ members.

[jfro18]

If you'll forgive the link to Reddit, someone there suggests this was a way of diverting press from the Vice News story, and I think there is something to that:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... teresting/

I hate the conspiracy theory part of this, but I saw a few people joking this weekend that the church would make some news to drown out the Vice story and then this pops up.

Pretty crazy either way... who knows I guess.

[MoPag]

If you'll forgive the link to Reddit, someone there suggests this was a way of diverting press from the Vice News story, and I think there is something to that:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... teresting/

I hate the conspiracy theory part of this, but I saw a few people joking this weekend that the church would make some news to drown out the Vice story and then this pops up.

Pretty crazy either way... who knows I guess.

I wonder how many mores scandals until we get coffee?

[Red Ryder]

I wonder how many mores scandals until we get coffee?

Or normal underwear!

[2bizE]

Finally!
Now time to start pushing for the USA to follow the world by going metric

I agree. I work in healthcare and everything is metric, but few other areas in the US are. It is the church that has been holding back on the entire USA moving to the metric system /s

[2bizE]

If you'll forgive the link to Reddit, someone there suggests this was a way of diverting press from the Vice News story, and I think there is something to that:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... teresting/

I hate the conspiracy theory part of this, but I saw a few people joking this weekend that the church would make some news to drown out the Vice story and then this pops up.

Pretty crazy either way... who knows I guess.

I wonder how many mores scandals until we get coffee?

Agree. I noticed the coffeemaker I picked out that was in my Amazon shopping cart prior to conference is now on my wish list.

[2bizE]

I wonder how many mores scandals until we get coffee?

Or normal underwear!

I guess it’s time to add normal underwear to my Amazon shopping cart....

[Corsair]

For those who haven't seen it, this change is on Bill Reel's list (see https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... elson_fix/), apparently they are ready to whip one of these babies out any time they are in danger of a major negative story in the press:

BillReel
12 points ·
1 hour ago

FYI as a reminder (asterisk next to means it is already happened or showing significant signs)

We are going to need a lot of new scandals coming to light for LDS leadership to do something about everything on this list. It sure seems suspcious that the "civil marriage waiting period" was removed right after that crazy Vice story went public. If the institutional church would systematically remove "one on one interviews with sexual questions" they would avoid a lot of future scandals.