Jesus vs. the Q15

[Hagoth]

I heard a total of about 20 seconds of conference today and those seconds were of Elder Holland chastising people for treating the church like a community rather than a somber torture session, which brought all of the phariseeism issues back to the surface for me. And that got me musing about Jesus and what He might think of the men sitting in the high seats in that conference center in their fine-twined linen.

I much prefer the closer-to-the-source Jesus in Mark and Matthew an the magical man-ghost in John.

Mark/Matthew Jesus (purportedly) taught that there are two great commandments, but when we read them I think we tend to overlook some of the most important connective tissue that ties it all together. I will make these parts bold below:

Matthew 22: 37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38: This is the first and great commandment. 39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

So, loving your neighbor is LIKE UNTO loving God, which should be EQUAL TO loving yourself. To me that says that you, me, God are all pretty much aspects of the same thing. And let us not forget, "the kingdom of God is within you."

What makes this really interesting to me is that he's saying it to a pharisee, so I assume it is the kind of message that Jesus would think a modern prophet or apostle might benefit from. It seems to me that he's telling the pharisee to love all beings equally, without hierarchy or prejudice.

So, Jesus and Elder Holland walk into a gay bar...

[Mankhoj]

All I could think of was RFM's Pharisee podcast.

[Hagoth]

All I could think of was RFM's Pharisee podcast.

Yeah, that was brilliant.

[Mankhoj]

All I could think of was RFM's Pharisee podcast.

Yeah, that was brilliant.

Very much agree. Love RFM!

[Palerider]

I don't disagree with Holland that the Sacrament could be approached with more solemnity. There are things in life that should be taken quite seriously. But we should try not to take OURSELVES too seriously....

Which brings to mind another problem the Pharisees had; that of the virtual worship of a dead prophet....Moses. The parallels are obvious. At least in the case of Moses he was a REAL prophet, unlike others we are asked to believe in (read "adore").

Something else that came through numerous talks AGAIN, which is quite caustic is the big guilt trip layed on everyone through the "covenant" made at baptism. Institutional child abuse? And you guys think the Catholics are bad?

"You all made these huge and burdensome covenants and commitments at baptism. Now you are obligated to keep them!"

How can these idiots possibly make these demands of an individual who was scarcely old enough to write their own name and repeat the alphabet? And yet the unmitigated absurdity seems to escape these people as we see them stating it with such sincerity.... Are they truly thinking about what they are saying?

Which brings me to the biggest problem with the church and it's leaders. (This after Bro. Eyring gave such a stern warning about speaking evil of the Lord's anointed in the priesthood session. )
The amalgamation of Christianity with the "doctrines of men". Leadership are constantly connecting, as Hagoth mentioned, obedience to God, with the fabricated "covenants" created by Joseph Smith. Which means obedience to the church and it's leaders. They are literally putting themselves in the place of God and telling you one thing is sinful in 2015 and then telling you that same thing is not so bad in 2019....

Go figure.

[nibbler]

Missed conference. What did Holland say about clothes people wear to church? Was is a half-liner while making some other point or did he go off on it?

[Random]

Interested in hearing the answer to that, myself, nibbler.

[nibbler]

Yeah, I want to know how long I'll be wearing sweatpants to SM.

[Palerider]

Missed conference. What did Holland say about clothes people wear to church? Was is a half-liner while making some other point or did he go off on it?

As I recall he didn't spend a lot of time on it but he mentioned the importance of wearing our "Sunday best" as a sign of respect for the meeting and the Savior.

[Random]

Since I'm not a member, I could go in jeans and a t-shirt instead of a dress, right?

[Palerider]

Since I'm not a member, I could go in jeans and a t-shirt instead of a dress, right?

Not without incurring some awkward or sympathetic glances....

[Random]

Since I'm not a member, I could go in jeans and a t-shirt instead of a dress, right?

Not without incurring some awkward or sympathetic glances....

Two or three years ago, a friend was going to go to sacrament meeting after our fellowship meeting, and I decided to go with her. I was wearing jeans and regular shirt. We didn't stay for any other meeting (we didn't take the sacrament either; after all, we'd just had a big hunk of bread and some wine less than an hour before). I wonder what glances we got that I didn't notice.

[lostinmiddlemormonism]

Missed conference. What did Holland say about clothes people wear to church? Was is a half-liner while making some other point or did he go off on it?

As I recall he didn't spend a lot of time on it but he mentioned the importance of wearing our "Sunday best" as a sign of respect for the meeting and the Savior.

Kilt it is. It's the most expensive and best quality material in my closet.

[Palerider]

Kilt it is. It's the most expensive and best quality material in my closet.

Aye laddy!!! And a white shirt no less!!

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[Hagoth]

Missed conference. What did Holland say about clothes people wear to church? Was is a half-liner while making some other point or did he go off on it?

As I recall he didn't spend a lot of time on it but he mentioned the importance of wearing our "Sunday best" as a sign of respect for the meeting and the Savior.

The part I heard was not as much about clothes as about people being human in the chapel. Things like making announcements at the beginning of sacrament meeting and hanging around and talking afterward. You should conduct yourself with monk-like soberness at all times because there is bread and water somewhere on the premises.

[Palerider]

As I recall he didn't spend a lot of time on it but he mentioned the importance of wearing our "Sunday best" as a sign of respect for the meeting and the Savior.

The part I heard was not as much about clothes as about people being human in the chapel. Things like making announcements at the beginning of sacrament meeting and hanging around and talking afterward. You should conduct yourself with monk-like soberness at all times because there is bread and water somewhere on the premises.

Yes, and I thought if he really wanted to get serious about the Sacrament they should be using "fruit of the vine", NOT water....

For all their sanctimonious bravado they can't even see that they have actually corrupted the ordinance... Which is another sign that they are in a state of apostacy.

Why hasn't grandpa Nelson received a revelation on THAT yet???