Split post: straight white cis male

[Reuben]

So now there is something wrong with me being a straight, white, cis (whatever in the hell this means) male? You seem just like the "inclusive" bigots your are railing against.. Nice

Cis = cisgendered = your biological sex and gender identity match. True of most people but not everyone (about 1% IIRC).

You left out racist, sexist, homophobic and elitist. I'm pretty sure the list of adjectives was meant to be a conjunction (i.e. all true) describing just a few men, and that generalizing it to a disjunction (i.e. at least one true) that could describe almost every male wasn't intended. The problems for people who see things in these terms are 1) the basic unfairness of excluding almost every member from high leadership, and 2) the perpetuation of prejudice and discrimination due to perpetuated empathy gaps.

If you want to discuss this further, please start a new thread. This one is for... GENERAAAALLLLL NOOOOMMFREEEEENNNCE!

[MoPag]

So now there is something wrong with me being a straight, white, cis (whatever in the hell this means) male? You seem just like the "inclusive" bigots your are railing against.. Nice

Thanks for calling me out. I was wrong. They are not all white. We have an Asian American member of the Q12 and I believe Elder Sores is a Brancos, or Brazilian person of European descent.

There is nothing wrong with being straight, white, cis, or male. We have many amazing straight, white, cis males in our NOM family.

The difference (and the reason I highlighted those adjectives of the Q15) is the Q15 think that being straight, white, and cis makes them better people. In other words, they consider gay and trans people as "less than." And while I don't know how many of them would say POCs (people of color) are "less than" their mentors (past members of the Q15) and their scriptures and their past policies say otherwise.

Pretty damn near all of our straight, white, cis NOMs understand that being straight, white, cis, doesn't make them any better or any less than people who aren't. They can see the humanity in those that are different from them. And that is a beautiful thing.

[jfro18]

I guess it has been a year since I joined NOM. I was delighted to finally find a place with like minded individuals. I found a lot of support and answers while visiting. However, today I have sadly discovered that I am not welcome here. Your hate filled rant towards straight, white men came straight from your heart. I am saddened to find that I am not welcome here simply because of who I am. Yes, I am straight. Yes, I am white. Yes, I am a male. I am also the step-father of lesbian daughter. I am the father of two adopted daughters from Argentina and an adopted son from the Ukraine. Sadly, you may truly believe that you are superior to these old, white, straight men but deep inside you are the same. You are a bigot. I have enjoyed my time here at NOM but life is too short to spend it reading the hateful diatribes of someone such as yourself.

I hope you don't leave and I can't speak for anyone else, but I think the anger towards the church's flip-flop here isn't aimed at white, straight men but at the fact that the leaders of the church believe that white, straight men are the 'best' of people.

And that starts with the BoM for white and male -- the gay stuff seems to have ratcheted up a lot since the ban on blacks was removed.

So for me (as a while, straight male) it's not bashing white, straight males but bashing the leaders of the church who view that group as somehow more righteous than any others.

[AllieOop]

I guess it has been a year since I joined NOM. I was delighted to finally find a place with like minded individuals. I found a lot of support and answers while visiting. However, today I have sadly discovered that I am not welcome here. Your hate filled rant towards straight, white men came straight from your heart. I am saddened to find that I am not welcome here simply because of who I am. Yes, I am straight. Yes, I am white. Yes, I am a male. I am also the step-father of lesbian daughter. I am the father of two adopted daughters from Argentina and an adopted son from the Ukraine. Sadly, you may truly believe that you are superior to these old, white, straight men but deep inside you are the same. You are a bigot. I have enjoyed my time here at NOM but life is too short to spend it reading the hateful diatribes of someone such as yourself.

I hope you don't leave. There's a lot of joking around, but no one here hates all old men who are straight and white....or even young men.

It's nothing at all personal against you or anyone else here and I hope you know that.

Things can be tense and emotional for some members around General Conference time and some come here to vent.

Anyway, hope you stick around

[alas]

There is nothing WRONG with straight white cis males, and you have a place here among like minded people. Unless that chip on your shoulder indicates that you are insulted because you think straight, white, cis, males should not be called out on their bigotry. That was what MoPage was doing, calling out straight, white, cis, males who happen to think that those traits make them better than anyone else. She was NOT criticizing straight, white, cis, males. So, if you think those traits make you *better* than, say straight white cis women, or gay white males, or transgender black men, then you are right that you just might not be welcome here. The key is thinking those traits make someone better than others.

But understand that those of us who are not straight, white, cis, males are going to call out the kind of bigotry that many straight, white, cis, males have that has harmed us. If you can’t take bigotry being called out for what it is, then you probably don’t belong here. So, get the privileged chip off your shoulder. Criticizing sexist, homophobic, bigots is not the same as criticizing all straight, white males, just because some straight white males do happen to deserve criticism.

Understand?

[MoPag]

There is nothing WRONG with straight white cis males, and you have a place here among like minded people. Unless that chip on your shoulder indicates that you are insulted because you think straight, white, cis, males should not be called out on their bigotry. That was what MoPage was doing, calling out straight, white, cis, males who happen to think that those traits make them better than anyone else. She was NOT criticizing straight, white, cis, males. So, if you think those traits make you *better* than, say straight white cis women, or gay white males, or transgender black men, then you are right that you just might not be welcome here. The key is thinking those traits make someone better than others.

But understand that those of us who are not straight, white, cis, males are going to call out the kind of bigotry that many straight, white, cis, males have that has harmed us. If you can’t take bigotry being called out for what it is, then you probably don’t belong here. So, get the privileged chip off your shoulder. Criticizing sexist, homophobic, bigots is not the same as criticizing all straight, white males, just because some straight white males do happen to deserve criticism.

Understand?

Thank you Alas!!

[MoPag]

I hope you don't leave. There's a lot of joking around, but no one here hates all old men who are straight and white....or even young men.

It's nothing at all personal against you or anyone else here and I hope you know that.

Things can be tense and emotional for some members around General Conference time and some come here to vent.

Anyway, hope you stick around

Thank you Allie!
Blashyrkh, I hope you can stick around too. One of the things I love about the NOM community is our ability to work though tough issues. But if you do decide to stay and learn, please review the board rules.

1) No Foul or abusive language, name calling, bullying or personal attacks; Keep language PG and question/critique ideas not people.

You called me a bigot. You can call my ideas bigoted, and we can discuss them. I, and other NOMs, have tried to explain to you that the comments I made about the Q15 are not directed personally to you. Unless of course you are a member of the Q15

So for me (as a while, straight male) it's not bashing white, straight males but bashing the leaders of the church who view that group as somehow more righteous than any others.

Thank you jfro18! That is exactly what I was going for.

[wtfluff]

White, straight, cis male here: Not offended.

It was obvious to me that MoPag was referring to the Q15 in her post.

Edit: Why don't we put the full quote in for context?

SPECIAL NOTE:
I know we are all still reeling from what happened with POX policy yesterday--lots of feelings and lots of processing still to do. Special hugs to all of our LGBT+ NOMs. And I wish we had more time to process this all before the next dose of TBM crazy. But...we don't.
What we can do is take back our power from the straight, white, cis, racist, sexist, homophobic, elitist men who demanded it from us all those years ago. That will look different for different people. For some NOMs it will mean avoiding GC altogether. For those who end up watching for what ever reason, I invite you to participle in NOMfrnece.

[Red Ryder]

Edit: Why don't we put the full quote in for context?

Probably because Captain Salty was sitting on the throne in his Dingy during a severe wind storm while trying to wipe his booty with one hand and type on his iPad with the other!

Stay in the boat has many meanings with all the pirates around here.

[MoPag]

White, straight, cis male here: Not offended.

It was obvious to me that MoPag was referring to the Q15 in her post.

Edit: Why don't we put the full quote in for context?

SPECIAL NOTE:
I know we are all still reeling from what happened with POX policy yesterday--lots of feelings and lots of processing still to do. Special hugs to all of our LGBT+ NOMs. And I wish we had more time to process this all before the next dose of TBM crazy. But...we don't.
What we can do is take back our power from the straight, white, cis, racist, sexist, homophobic, elitist men who demanded it from us all those years ago. That will look different for different people. For some NOMs it will mean avoiding GC altogether. For those who end up watching for what ever reason, I invite you to participle in NOMfrnece.

Thanks Fluff!
As I'm reflecting on this I can see how listing the adjectives straight, white, cis (I am all of theses things too) next to some very negative adjectives, might have caused some confusion or hurt feelings. I apologize if my intension was not clear and some people felt hurt.