Utah researcher: theory of religious influences in Utah LGBT suicides may be overblown

[Red Ryder]

I haven't read through this in full but appears the Utah legislature has requested more research into the increased rate of suicide in Utah youth.

Note the researcher states he is gay.

Do you think the evidence is inconclusive and the reason for the suicide too vague to link back to religion as the main cause?

I've got to read more before I can really make an opinion here.

https://qsaltlake.com/news/2018/12/06/u ... z3CD7nRuaM

A Utah suicide researcher says the friction between LGBT sexuality and religion in Utah may not be quite the driving factor behind youth suicide as many people believe.

Despite a general perception that many of Utah’s youth suicides arise from intolerance toward LGBT people promulgated (though not necessarily intentionally) by teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the state’s suicide prevention research coordinator says that may not be the case.

“There’s no data to show that, period,” says Michael Staley, who works in the Utah Office of the Medical Examiner and is the first person who would know, since he leads an effort to collect, compile and analyze suicide information from around the state. He conducts that research at the behest of the Utah Legislature. “We are working to get that data,” he says.

[slavereeno]

I guess I assumed that a bunch of the youth were just feeling emotional pain in general whether gay or straight. Since there are a lot of Mormons in Utah it flies in the face of "we are the happiest people evar."

I suppose a TBM may argue that the suicides are because of all these doubts cropping up.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Could stats be skewed because we simply have more kids due to a high birth rate?

[Corsair]

https://qsaltlake.com/news/2018/12/06/u ... z3CD7nRuaM

A Utah suicide researcher says the friction between LGBT sexuality and religion in Utah may not be quite the driving factor behind youth suicide as many people believe.

Let's take them at their word for a moment. Does the LDS church have the courage to form a group to thoroughly understand exactly why their sons and daughters are killing themselves? Would this be an excellent goal for the Apostles and First Presidency?

If these priesthood leaders have a strong testimony that the Gospel of Jesus Christ restored through Joseph Smith is not the contributing factor, should they not closely examine the terminated lives of thousands of LDS youth from faithful families? Shouldn't they carefully figure out what has removed these precious souls from a life of missionary service, making covenants in the temple, and raising righteous families? Shouldn't they be working hand in hand with a dedicated group like the Mama Dragons to save the lives of their youth? If "sin" is somehow a cause let's figure that out because I imagine that virtually every family would rather have a child sinning and alive rather than righteous and tragically dead. It sounds almost mocking to put it in terms like that and that is certainly not my goal.

If the LDS church is not the cause, then LDS leadership should be working to keep their LDS youth alive and healthy.

[moksha]

The American Tobacco Association found that cigarettes were perfectly safe and did not cause cancer. FAIRMormon found that the Mountain Meadows Massacre never happened and if it did that Brigham Young had nothing whatsoever to do with it. Arthur Anderson, Inc. found that Enron was a perfectly safe investment.

[jfro18]

I'm not going to say the researcher is wrong or lying because honestly he would have more access to info than me, but these stats speak for themselves:







That last one is the depression rate by state in 2017, and Utah led the country.

Is it because of LGBT? Maybe, maybe not... but something is happening and it certainly seems like more LDS teens are depressed or suicidal compared to the rest of the country and it definitely warrants a more honest effort by the church to address it.

[blazerb]

I think a big part of the problem is that this researcher is saying that the data has not been gathered to show that LGBT+ youth commit suicide in UT beyond what would be expected and TBMs are reporting that he is saying that the data shows that LGBT+ youth are not committing suicide . . . . I think it is wise to wait for the data, but that does not absolve us from reaching out to troubled persons to give them help. A lot of that help may be giving support to deal with church teachings.

[Just This Guy]

I think there is a simple way to tell. What is the suicide rate in Utah among LDS vs. non-lds children? Do they have this data? IF so, then what are the numbers?

I'm not sure what to make of this guy. He talks a lot about the data not supporting the idea, but at no point does he go into the details on what the actual data is. Is that the reporter or the researcher doing that? All he does is reference a small study from the CDC. He claims he has better data, prove it.

[RubinHighlander]

I think there is a simple way to tell. What is the suicide rate in Utah among LDS vs. non-lds children? Do they have this data? IF so, then what are the numbers?

I'd like to see that number, but I also think there is a social impact on non-LDS youth in this state, especially gay ones. So even though a gay kid might be in a non-lds home they still have to deal with the public school system and being ostracized. It's a very complicated set of variables. I'm glad to see they are gathering more data, the more the better.

...talking to the people suicide victims leave behind: family and friends.

Here's the thing about this data: Will hard core TBM parents of a gay child really reveal the difficult dynamics of what they went through? I suppose siblings and extended family that are not TBM might help round out the picture, but all those views are not factual data. Quotes from the victim expressing feelings about their situation would be more ideal, but that can be really difficult data to get to.

[wtfluff]

There's also another issue: "The Data" in Utah is skewed. The theocracy controls law enforcement to the point that law enforcement won't report some suicides because they're told "how" to report the deaths by the theocracy.

Yes, it's anecdotal evidence, but it's evidence that came directly from a law enforcement officer.

It's honestly sickening the way LDS-Inc. is treating this issue.

Like The Pirate mentioned: If LDS-Inc. actually cared, they would actually DO SOMETHING, not just toss around "data" and statistics to try and pass the blame. The name-and-blame game wouldn't matter if they'd actually DO SOMETHING to keep these kids alive and healthy.

[Just This Guy]

Here's the thing about this data: Will hard core TBM parents of a gay child really reveal the difficult dynamics of what they went through? I suppose siblings and extended family that are not TBM might help round out the picture, but all those views are not factual data. Quotes from the victim expressing feelings about their situation would be more ideal, but that can be really difficult data to get to.

To take it a step further, how often is a kid gay and no one knows and the takes that secret to their grave? There is so much same and social pressure built up around it that a kid may take their life and never reveal the real reason for it. I know at that is impossible to track by definition, but it is at least a possibility.

[jfro18]

I think there is a simple way to tell. What is the suicide rate in Utah among LDS vs. non-lds children? Do they have this data? IF so, then what are the numbers?

I'm not sure what to make of this guy. He talks a lot about the data not supporting the idea, but at no point does he go into the details on what the actual data is. Is that the reporter or the researcher doing that? All he does is reference a small study from the CDC. He claims he has better data, prove it.

I actually looked into this like a month ago because I wanted to do a write-up of it, but I hit a brick wall because I saw a number of articles that said plainly that they do not have stats of LDS vs non-LDS suicides, etc.

So maybe it's out there, but it is not readily available. And that's what is so difficult here because you want to trust this guy has more info than we do and is not lying to protect the church's image, but if that is the case he should reference that data or release it because what we do have certainly appears damning to the church.

[Corsair]

To take it a step further, how often is a kid gay and no one knows and the takes that secret to their grave? There is so much same and social pressure built up around it that a kid may take their life and never reveal the real reason for it. I know at that is impossible to track by definition, but it is at least a possibility.

One of the most heart breaking stories I heard about this issue was from Wendy Montgomery of the Mama Dragons. She has met with many law enforcement officers in Utah who have attended to the grieving families of suicides. Some of the desperate, sobbing families will plead with the officer to put down the "cause of death" to be accidental poisoning. Families don't want their family narrative to be eternally dragged down by "suicide" in their family, especially if their child might have been "Experiencing Same Sex Attraction."

Attending officers are sometimes emotionally swayed by these requests, but would be in enormous trouble to change their story after the fact. In essesnce, the suicide rate would be higher in Utah, although we don't know by how much.

[wtfluff]

One of the most heart breaking stories I heard about this issue was from Wendy Montgomery of the Mama Dragons. She has met with many law enforcement officers in Utah who have attended to the grieving families of suicides. Some of the desperate, sobbing families will plead with the officer to put down the "cause of death" to be accidental poisoning. Families don't want their family narrative to be eternally dragged down by "suicide" in their family, especially if their child might have been "Experiencing Same Sex Attraction."

Attending officers are sometimes emotionally swayed by these requests, but would be in enormous trouble to change their story after the fact. In essesnce, the suicide rate would be higher in Utah, although we don't know by how much.

As I mentioned in my previous post: It's not just the families that do this, "The Church" also does this. "The Church" that runs the government in Utah.

[Linked]

I saw an article on "Suicide Contagion" and wondered if it might have something to do with the high suicide rates in Utah. The CDC reported that coverage of suicide can be a factor in causing a higher suicide rate. They suggest that when reporting on suicide the following things be avoided:

- Presenting simplistic explanations for suicide.
- Engaging in repetitive, ongoing, or excessive reporting of suicide in the news.
- Providing sensational coverage of suicide.
- Reporting "how-to" descriptions of suicide.
- Presenting suicide as a tool for accomplishing certain ends.
- Glorifying suicide or persons who commit suicide.
- Focusing on the suicide completer's positive characteristics.

[Hagoth]

To take it a step further, how often is a kid gay and no one knows and the takes that secret to their grave?

That was my observation also. The data cannot be known because there is no post-mortem test for this sexual or gender orientation, just as there is no post-mortem test for self loathing due to masturbation guilt or modesty shaming.

[Hagoth]

I saw an article on "Suicide Contagion" and wondered if it might have something to do with the high suicide rates in Utah. The CDC reported that coverage of suicide can be a factor in causing a higher suicide rate. They suggest that when reporting on suicide the following things be avoided:

- Presenting simplistic explanations for suicide.
- Engaging in repetitive, ongoing, or excessive reporting of suicide in the news.
- Providing sensational coverage of suicide.
- Reporting "how-to" descriptions of suicide.
- Presenting suicide as a tool for accomplishing certain ends.
- Glorifying suicide or persons who commit suicide.
- Focusing on the suicide completer's positive characteristics.

That's a great point, but I don't think it applies to Utah more than anywhere else. Suicides are very rarely reported on the local news. The only one I can think of was the kid who actually killed himself on the steps of the church.

[wtfluff]

I saw an article on "Suicide Contagion" and wondered if it might have something to do with the high suicide rates in Utah. The CDC reported that coverage of suicide can be a factor in causing a higher suicide rate. They suggest that when reporting on suicide the following things be avoided:

- Presenting simplistic explanations for suicide.
- Engaging in repetitive, ongoing, or excessive reporting of suicide in the news.
- Providing sensational coverage of suicide.
- Reporting "how-to" descriptions of suicide.
- Presenting suicide as a tool for accomplishing certain ends.
- Glorifying suicide or persons who commit suicide.
- Focusing on the suicide completer's positive characteristics.

I think this sort of "Contagion" has to do with the way the media reports on suicides.

Not necessarily how a "police report" would report on a death/suicide.

I understand this contagion factor in the way the media reports.

I don't understand a law enforcement officer not reporting a suicide because a "priesthood leader" asked them not to. This seems like falsifying a police report because a random IT guy down the street asked. A report that won't cause contagion, because the vast majority of the public will never see said report.

[RubinHighlander]

Today at school one of my DD's friends overheard a conversation wherein a girl was accusing my DD of being a lesbian; which she is not. The girl spreading this rumor is from a TBM family from the local ward. We've had problems with all of our daughters being bullied or made fun of or being left out of the clicks in three wards different wards in this stake that we attended as TBMs over the past several years. This girl spreading the rumors today is one of the worst.

DD came home from school early, mostly for monthly girl reasons but also because she was upset about the rumors spread by this snotty little beauch. Our DD has had depression and issues with suicide in the past and continues to struggle socially at the high school. DW and I discussed sending the parents a copy of the Utah studies about teen suicide and bullying, along with a copy of that stupid theme the TBM YW have to recite and ask them what their daughter is doing to contribute to the problem of Teen suicide and bullying or what she could be doing to help with it! We are at a point we are ready to home school or look to a private/charter school. The incident today is just one of many we've had to deal with, beginning in Jr. High to now.

[MoPag]

The incident today is just one of many we've had to deal with, beginning in Jr. High to now.

Hugs for you and your sweet DD. Ugh, Jr high is it's own special hell. I do think you are onto something about the bullying from TBM kids. I think I remember reading something that stated half the kids who die by suicide are LDS. But I can't remember for sure. Even if half of the suicide victims aren't LDS, it doesn't mean that the toxic LDS shame culture wasn't a factor. You certainly don't have to be LDS to be exposed to LDS bullsh!t.