Talking in tongues

[Hagoth]

Which leads us to the Kirkland(?) temple vision where Joseph describes what he is seeing and Sidney Rigdon states, "I see the same." Then iirc, Sidney describes the vision he is seeing and then Joseph says, "I see the same."

That scenario always sounded to me like a game of Dungeons and Dragons, where two people are playing make-believe together.

[RubinHighlander]

It can also be done either sincerely or deceptively and there's no way of disputing it. In fact it can be made to look even more genuine if another believer or accomplice claims to understand the gibberish.

Which leads us to the Kirkland(?) temple vision where Joseph describes what he is seeing and Sidney Rigdon states, "I see the same." Then iirc, Sidney describes the vision he is seeing and then Joseph says, "I see the same."

Well isn't that just a classic setup for an unverifiable phenomenon that would reel in a trusting but gullible audience?

I say, take the two of them into two separate rooms where they can have the vision on a day when they don't know it's happening and have them pray to receive the same vision, you know like Nephi and his father, Lehi, and then describe the vision to another church member in the room with them. Then those two church members can come out of the rooms and tell the visions to see if they match.

I know, sounds complex and picayune but how gullible must one be to believe it the way they did do it?

I'd also like to have had them both drug tested. I'm guessing there was more than just alcohol in that wine.

[Reuben]

It can also be done either sincerely or deceptively and there's no way of disputing it. In fact it can be made to look even more genuine if another believer or accomplice claims to understand the gibberish.

Which leads us to the Kirkland(?) temple vision where Joseph describes what he is seeing and Sidney Rigdon states, "I see the same." Then iirc, Sidney describes the vision he is seeing and then Joseph says, "I see the same."

Well isn't that just a classic setup for an unverifiable phenomenon that would reel in a trusting but gullible audience?

I say, take the two of them into two separate rooms where they can have the vision on a day when they don't know it's happening and have them pray to receive the same vision, you know like Nephi and his father, Lehi, and then describe the vision to another church member in the room with them. Then those two church members can come out of the rooms and tell the visions to see if they match.

I know, sounds complex and picayune but how gullible must one be to believe it the way they did do it?

I'd also like to have had them both drug tested. I'm guessing there was more than just alcohol in that wine.

Guys, this is just how they talked back then. My grandparents did it, too, as evidenced by the following exchange which I swear I am not making up.

"Martha, what do I see? I see my porridge on the table."

"I see the same. Hector, what do I see? I see that it is getting cold."

"I see the same, Martha."

It took forever for them to get on the same page about the stuff that was right in front of them. Maddening.

[Reuben]

I'd also like to have had them both drug tested. I'm guessing there was more than just alcohol in that wine.

That's a really interesting idea given what Philo Dibble wrote after describing how they received the vision.

During the whole time not a word was spoken by any other person. Not a sound nor motion made by anyone but Joseph and Sidney, and it seemed to me that they never moved a joint or limb during the time I was there, which I think was over an hour, and to the end of the vision. Joseph sat firmly and calmly all the time in the midst of a magnificent glory, but Sidney sat limp and pale, apparently as limber as a rag, observing which, Joseph remarked, smilingly, “Sidney is not used to it as I am.”

We need a list of commonly available hallucinogens that can make new users limp and pale, apparently as limber as a rag.

[Reuben]

I was thinking it would be hilarious if one of them tried to change the story in the middle of the vision.

Joseph: What do I see? I see the Kingdom of the Church of the Firstborn, who inherit all the Father hath.

Sidney: I see the same. [pause] What do I see? I see that their garments are washed white in the blood of the Lamb.

Joseph: I see the same, but most are washed more of a cream or eggshell, and lo, those whose garments are washed white receive an extra inheritance, for these are they who submit to the will of the Lord given to his anointed servants.

Sidney: I see the same, except that cream, eggshell and white are all alike into God, for behold, Joseph, this is what God hath given us glimpses of aforetime.

Joseph: I see the same. [pause] What do I see? A giant prick whom God shall send plagues upon.