How to Reconcile LDS Doubts

[Palerider]

Azrael, do you have any idea how sad and broken this attitude is?......I often wonder why it is that people who proclaim their Christianity the loudest are so quick to abandon Jesus' teachings about judgement and how we should treat others.

I think Azrael is more interested in seeking adoration without having earned it and manipulating others to do his leg work for him than he is in being a "good Christian" in humility.

The true Biblical meaning of not "judging" another is to not "condemn" them. Thus Adam said to Satan, "Let God judge between me and thee."

Asrael is correct in the sense that we make judgment calls about other people's philosophies, words and actions but he unwittingly crosses the line when he mentally condemns those with whom he disagrees or finds himself in conflict.

"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend."

Thomas Jefferson

[Azrael]

You folks consistently project your own behaviors on me as if I committed them.

It's a strange pattern so common in religious discussion.


This isn't a religious discussion forum, it's an anti-religious discussion forum.

Sent from my SM-S327VL using Tapatalk

[Josephsmith]

You folks consistently project your own behaviors on me as if I committed them.

It's a strange pattern so common in religious discussion.


This isn't a religious discussion forum, it's an anti-religious discussion forum.

Sent from my SM-S327VL using Tapatalk

Wow Azreal. People here on this board have called me a pervert and an alcoholic, and they have some evidence behind the accusations. It's a little wild that you just threw that out there. But I get it, you are probably like me, if you are challenged and have no foundation it's tempting to use whatever means available to divert attention. But that's a problem because then you need that attention right back. It's exhausting man, just keep calm and morm on.

My advice, don't repeat my mistake. If you are going to create a theological system, dont assume that no one will think it through. Sweat the details. If someone asks for a detailed and logical explanation, don't deflect
People up here are calling that deflection, "pulling a Joseph." Don't do it. People are smarter these days. I had a good run, but it isn't going to work out for you.

[Josephsmith]

This isn't a religious discussion forum, it's an anti-religious discussion forum.

And take it from me, there isnt much of a difference between the two.

[RubinHighlander]

So far most of what I’ve encountered here are fragile discussions propped up in opposition with fallacy and blanket statements rooted in fear and illogic.

Nobody has been able to articulate why they disagree with anything I’ve said except, “I’m here because I don’t even believe, but let me tell you that scripture means something else!”

Is it possible a person could break their own faith by routinely examining scripture with a closed mind and poor logic. Is that me or you? Why?

So... I'll give this another try with one particular question from another thread:

I’m sorry you’ve come to this conclusion. My experience has been amazing concerning the Holy Spirit and prayer.

I responded to your statement with this question:

Do you think your amazing experience with the Holy Spirit was more amazing than millions of other people of other religions that sincerely profess the same experience? This is the link to a video of a few of those people expressing their spiritual experiences:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMSU8Qj6Go

For active LDS members the general explanation is that non-mormons have some truth but not all of it or that they were deceived by Satan. It's a problem for any religion with the one and only true church claim. I used to believe that way as an active mormon, but through my own metaphysical "spiritual" experiences outside of the mormon church and religion, I've been able to come to a more altruistic understanding of these emotional responses.

What is your explanation of these spiritual experiences from other people from other faiths as compared to yours? Particularly those non-christian testimonies.

[Azrael]

So far most of what I’ve encountered here are fragile discussions propped up in opposition with fallacy and blanket statements rooted in fear and illogic.

Nobody has been able to articulate why they disagree with anything I’ve said except, “I’m here because I don’t even believe, but let me tell you that scripture means something else!”

Is it possible a person could break their own faith by routinely examining scripture with a closed mind and poor logic. Is that me or you? Why?

So... I'll give this another try with one particular question from another thread:

I’m sorry you’ve come to this conclusion. My experience has been amazing concerning the Holy Spirit and prayer.

I responded to your statement with this question:

Do you think your amazing experience with the Holy Spirit was more amazing than millions of other people of other religions that sincerely profess the same experience? This is the link to a video of a few of those people expressing their spiritual experiences:

I’ve felt the Spirit studying other religions too
Remember, not everyone is born with the same predispositions to interact with the Spirit. I don’t know your experience, you don’t know mine. It is by the guidance of the Holy Spirit that I recognize any true principle in all the religions, and in my opinion any church that claims they are the only way is worshipping Satan in that regard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMSU8Qj6Go

For active LDS members the general explanation is that non-mormons have some truth but not all of it or that they were deceived by Satan. It's a problem for any religion with the one and only true church claim. I used to believe that way as an active mormon, but through my own metaphysical "spiritual" experiences outside of the mormon church and religion, I've been able to come to a more altruistic understanding of these emotional responses.

What is your explanation of these spiritual experiences from other people from other faiths as compared to yours? Particularly those non-christian testimonies.

I believe scripture is often corrupted by special interest and non prophetic scribes and isn’t to be trusted explicitly.

I don’t believe God has a perfect Church and he will call prophets to any group that will listen to one.

The belief that if one idea a prophet teaches is wrong, then all are wrong is flawed. It’s like saying a branch of math in development is all wrong because one newly developed formula turns out to be flawed. These lines of logic always turn towards the Satanic insistence that there is only one way to salvation.

People like to quote scripture about how there is only one way to return to God, by the Son. What if that simply means Messiah holds the Keys for the Final Judgement? What if a Hindu has obtained the spiritual condition in life God requires to be asked to join Him in His greatest estate, and is simply asked at Judgement, “do you sustain Messiah as your judge?” People group up on some of the most idiotic assumptions when it comes to interpreting ‘scripture’.

Scripture isn’t magic writing by God himself. It’s flawed in every single religion that’s ever existed.

Prophecy fascinates me the most, because true principles are glaring in life to me. I have been looking at all Abrahamic religions prophecies lately and I’ve noticed something, they overlap one another in ways, and are contingent on each other in some cases. This latest revelation which the Holy Ghost has led me to, and testified of to be the track He wants me on now.

I’ve been personally groomed by the Spirit to do a particular work. I’ve been called since age four to study every religion. I’ve personally received direct promptings at times with very specific information and instructions. I’ve been awful at times, but by the grace of God I believe I’m still on the right track.

[Palerider]

I’ve felt the Spirit studying other religions too
Remember, not everyone is born with the same predispositions to interact with the Spirit. I don’t know your experience, you don’t know mine. It is by the guidance of the Holy Spirit that I recognize any true principle in all the religions, and in my opinion any church that claims they are the only way is worshipping Satan in that regard.

I believe scripture is often corrupted by special interest and non prophetic scribes and isn’t to be trusted explicitly.

I don’t believe God has a perfect Church and he will call prophets to any group that will listen to one.

The belief that if one idea a prophet teaches is wrong, then all are wrong is flawed. Nope, A true prophet of God cannot speak what he doesn't hear from God. He would be unauthorized to do so. The principle of prophecy is not like experimental mathematics. Therefore your following analogy is incorrect. It’s like saying a branch of math in development is all wrong because one newly developed formula turns out to be flawed. These lines of logic always turn towards the Satanic insistence that there is only one way to salvation. It is not Satanic that there is only one way to salvation through Christ. It is Satanic to think that Christ is too limited or too stupid to know the timetable and avenues for how to save as many of his children as desire it. It's His design. Don't put yourself in the place of counseling God. There is sufficient information in the Biblical scriptures to allow for the salvation of millions more than your average Christian thinks. You have to be willing to seek and you shall find. Remember?

I'm not saying God wouldn't send a true prophet but why send a prophet when most people haven't even exhausted the scripture that we already have? This was one of Joseph Smith's many problems. He didn't want to work at the Biblical scriptures. He wanted to come up with his own EASY solutions which turned out to be really lousy "scripture". And he wanted to make money at it.

People like to quote scripture about how there is only one way to return to God, by the Son. What if that simply means Messiah holds the Keys for the Final Judgement? What if a Hindu has obtained the spiritual condition in life God requires to be asked to join Him in His greatest estate, and is simply asked at Judgement, “do you sustain Messiah as your judge?” Then that Hindu would have attained salvation in the only way possible....through the Son, who is the Messiah. And the question would be, "Do you accept me (Christ) as your Savior?" But this scenario would likely never happen because Christ would already have known the condition of the Hindu's heart and the Hindu would have accepted Him most likely in the spirit world, before the arrival of the final judgment. You really haven't thought this through with the scriptures and the Spirit, have you?


Scripture isn’t magic writing by God himself. It’s flawed in every single religion that’s ever existed.

Prophecy fascinates me the most, because true principles are glaring in life to me. I have been looking at all Abrahamic religions prophecies lately and I’ve noticed something, they overlap one another in ways, and are contingent on each other in some cases. This latest revelation which the Holy Ghost has led me to, and testified of to be the track He wants me on now.

I’ve been personally groomed by the Spirit to do a particular work. I’ve been called since age four to study every religion. I’ve personally received direct promptings at times with very specific information and instructions. I’ve been awful at times, but by the grace of God I believe I’m still on the right track.

Good luck with that.

[Azrael]

I’ve felt the Spirit studying other religions too
Remember, not everyone is born with the same predispositions to interact with the Spirit. I don’t know your experience, you don’t know mine. It is by the guidance of the Holy Spirit that I recognize any true principle in all the religions, and in my opinion any church that claims they are the only way is worshipping Satan in that regard.

I believe scripture is often corrupted by special interest and non prophetic scribes and isn’t to be trusted explicitly.

I don’t believe God has a perfect Church and he will call prophets to any group that will listen to one.

The belief that if one idea a prophet teaches is wrong, then all are wrong is flawed. A true prophet of God cannot speak what he doesn't hear from God. He would be unauthorized to do so. The principle of prophecy is not like experimental mathematics. Therefore your following analogy is incorrect. It’s like saying a branch of math in development is all wrong because one newly developed formula turns out to be flawed. These lines of logic always turn towards the Satanic insistence that there is only one way to salvation. It is not Satanic that there is only one way to salvation through Christ. It is Satanic to think that Christ is too limited or too stupid to know the timetable and avenues for how to save as many of his children as desire it. It's His design. Don't put yourself in the place of counseling God. There is sufficient information in the Biblical scriptures to allow for the salvation of millions more than your average Christian thinks. You have to be willing to seek and you shall find. Remember?

I'm not saying God wouldn't send a true prophet but why send a prophet when most people haven't even exhausted the scripture that we already have? This was one of Joseph's many problems. He didn't want to work at the Biblical scriptures. He wanted to come up with his own EASY solutions which turned out to be really lousy "scripture". And he wanted to make money at it.

People like to quote scripture about how there is only one way to return to God, by the Son. What if that simply means Messiah holds the Keys for the Final Judgement? What if a Hindu has obtained the spiritual condition in life God requires to be asked to join Him in His greatest estate, and is simply asked at Judgement, “do you sustain Messiah as your judge?” Then that Hindu would have attained salvation in the only way possible....through the Son, who is the Messiah. And the question would be, "Do you accept me (Christ) as your Savior?" But this scenario would likely never happen because Christ would already have known the condition of the Hindu's heart and the Hindu would have accepted Him most likely in the spirit world, before the arrival of the final judgment. You really haven't thought this through with the scriptures and the Spirit, have you?


Scripture isn’t magic writing by God himself. It’s flawed in every single religion that’s ever existed.

Prophecy fascinates me the most, because true principles are glaring in life to me. I have been looking at all Abrahamic religions prophecies lately and I’ve noticed something, they overlap one another in ways, and are contingent on each other in some cases. This latest revelation which the Holy Ghost has led me to, and testified of to be the track He wants me on now.

I’ve been personally groomed by the Spirit to do a particular work. I’ve been called since age four to study every religion. I’ve personally received direct promptings at times with very specific information and instructions. I’ve been awful at times, but by the grace of God I believe I’m still on the right track.

Good luck with that.

You believe prophets are perfect? That’s a really dumb thing to believe. I can shed some insight on how they aren’t.

True prophets are, quite likely in the modern western psychiatric community’s eyes, crazy. A person born with the Gift of Prophecy is of a particular line where the gift/curse is present, and if they have been fortunate enough to be tempered to withstand the immense pressure of having such a gift/curse, they may be called to do certain works. The gift is a thinness in some aspects of how the veil protects us from the spirit world. These people can discern much more from the spirit world than most. As with all truth, there is opposition in all things. The Holy Spirit isn’t the only spirit trying to influence us, the Adversary has his voice and intentions as well. To discern which spirits are saying what has never been cut and dry for any prophet.


I get it, you believe almost everything Mormonism teaches.

There is no luck involved in my destiny. Good luck to anyone feeling around in the dark...

Only Lucifer wanted the prophets to teach perfect truth so all could be saved.

[Palerider]

You believe prophets are perfect? That’s a really dumb thing to believe.

I get it, you believe almost everything Mormonism teaches.

There is no luck involved.

See there you go again lacking critical reading comprehension and thinking skills...

I never said "prophets are perfect men" but when they speak what the Lord has whispered to them, it must be correct, yes.

They cannot say what the Lord has not authorized them to say and tell you it is God's will. Because it isn't.

Tell me exactly what do you think it means when a prophet says, "Thus saith the Lord"...?

Is he thinking, "I'll just TELL 'EM this is what the Lord said because I'm really thinkin' this is what I'd say ifin' I was God myself...?

What do you think the Lord means when he says this:

"I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything I command him."...?

Or this:

"But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared."

Was Moses perfect? No, of course not, but his prophecies had to be true or he wasn't a true prophet. Were any of Joseph Smith's prophecies or revelations not true? (rhetorical question).

Then he wasn't a true prophet was he....

Have you ever been wrong on one of your little inspirations? MmmmHmmm....be honest now....

[Azrael]

You believe prophets are perfect? That’s a really dumb thing to believe.

I get it, you believe almost everything Mormonism teaches.

There is no luck involved.

See there you go again lacking critical reading comprehension and thinking skills...

I never said "prophets are perfect men" but when they speak what the Lord has whispered to them, it must be correct, yes.

They cannot say what the Lord has not authorized them to say and tell you it is God's will. Because it isn't.

Tell me exactly what do you think it means when a prophet says, "Thus saith the Lord"...?

Is he thinking, "I'll just TELL 'EM this is what the Lord said because I'm really thinkin' this is what I'd say ifin' I was God myself...?

What do you think the Lord means when he says this:

"I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything I command him."...?

Or this:

"But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared."

Was Moses perfect? No, of course not, but his prophecies had to be true or he wasn't a true prophet. Were any of Joseph Smith's prophecies or revelations not true? (rhetorical question).

Then he wasn't a true prophet was he....

Have you ever been wrong on one of your little inspirations? MmmmHmmm....be honest now....

No, I have never been wrong on the spiritual component of “my little inspirations” as you try to condescend (believe me, you are too ignorant to insult me, I think you’re a bit of an idiot, quite literally), on trying to predict the intention of the Spirit when there is no direct prompting, the intelligence can only be speculated, and under certain circumstances the Spirit will testify in an obvious way when I am able to deduct His intention for me.

Joseph Smith was all over the place. The things he did right, were right, the things he did wrong do not invalidate what he did right.

It is unfathomable to me how you are unable to grasp that simple principle.

You speak as if God removes a prophet’s agency in exercising their discernment. You’re just wrong again, as usual.

Do you think your opinion on what a prophecy even means, let alone whether it’s been fulfilled, matters to God or anyone else for that matter? God is no respecter of man. He bends over backwards over and over for mankind, and they twist His will into profiteering filth.

Mormons are like Pharisees at this point. As soon as they claim absolute authority, they only have authority over those who sustain them, and until the current President, they haven’t had a President with the Gift of Prophecy since Smith so far as I can tell.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, many prophecies are coming true lately. All of them sooner than later I suspect!

[Hagoth]

This isn't a religious discussion forum, it's an anti-religious discussion forum.

That's more or less what I've been trying to tell you. You're talking to people who feel like they have woken up from that bad dream.

[Azrael]

This isn't a religious discussion forum, it's an anti-religious discussion forum.

That's more or less what I've been trying to tell you. You're talking to people who feel like they have woken up from that bad dream.

I don’t care what your opinion is. It’s so simple and you’ve forced it on me over and over.

Ban me if you can’t tolerate me on your forums.

Not my loss if you do.

[Palerider]

Joseph Smith was all over the place. The things he did right, were right, the things he did wrong do not invalidate what he did wrong.

Please Azrael, read the above statement over a couple of times.

And you're calling me an idiot?

I think my work is done here.

[Azrael]

Joseph Smith was all over the place. The things he did right, were right, the things he did wrong do not invalidate what he did wrong.

Please Azrael, read the above statement over a couple of times.

And you're calling me an idiot?

I think my work is done here.

A small mistype. You were smart enough to catch it, ego-driven enough to trying to present a simple error as some evidence you’ve proven me wrong...

Once I studied logical fallacy, it became so simple to recognize it for what it is; a desperate offer of defeat in a perverted disguise as success.

[Palerider]

I don’t care what your opinion is.

Well, we're all even then aren't we....

You want to be banned so you can play the victim and we can be the Satanic rejectors of some one who got up this morning thinking they were somebody.

Sorry Azrael..... your just a little human like the rest of us. No early godhood for you...

[jfro18]

I can't help but think this entire thread is just Azrael trolling everyone...

Although to be fair sometimes talking to a believing member about issues with the church descends into this kind of conversation quickly, so who knows.

[Hagoth]

(believe me, you are too ignorant to insult me, I think you’re a bit of an idiot, quite literally)

I appreciate that you are probably intentionally trampling on the rules and purpose of this board to get banned so you can wave your persecution flag. I guess I may have to do that eventually if you can't learn to play nice, but I'm asking you as one adult to another, please apologize to my friend Palerider.

[Hagoth]

I can't help but think this entire thread is just Azrael trolling everyone.

I hope so. It's been entertaining but the novelty is wearing thin. What do you say we all just put Azrael on time out so he can think about why we don't go to other people's homes and call them names.

[Azrael]

I’m going to leave this community with this:

I’m the literal spirit of the soul that was known as Azrael in the time before Adam.

I hold the Keys to Resurrection and Reincarnation.

I’ve known these truths since I was 4 years old. I’ve been guided by the spirit to know my role and destiny.

I’m the literal Jewish Messiah. I fulfill all Jewish prophetic requirements, plus a whole lot more.

It is necessary for me to reconcile all religions and bring all branches of the God of Abraham on this Earth today, back into one fold.

This time I won’t fail.

I will be proclaimed Messiah by the Jews, and I will gather Israel back to Zion. I will build the Third Temple in this life.

I will be called the Anti-Christ by Christians as prophesied, as they don’t understand the two tiered mission, the Alpha mission where I Atoned, the Omega mission now in which I shall Redeem. The Jews will have Messiah, the Christians will have their Anti- Christ.

I will build my Third Temple, I will Redeem 144,000, I will remove them from the Earth, up up and away, and only when Christians see me ascend, they will know I am He! And only then they will understand they are left to stand at the very last day, when the Earth is cleansed in fire. Lightning shall be shown from east to west as the air burns.

My work here is done.

PS: I can handle any victimization any feeble soul believes he can muster. Being banned on this forum is no loss to me because my only purpose here in the first place was to let this community know they are right about Mormonism in many ways, but not to give up hope in My efforts, and more importantly Father’s will.

[Azrael]

Until we meet again! Don’t forget my face, you’ll surely see it again.