August, 1836

[Azrael]

I am considering the scripture itself, not Smith’s interpretation. He was just a prophet, not Messiah or Father.

So one minute you paint Smith in grandiose and marvelous strokes and the next he's just a "prophet" who can be taken or left without intrepidation. A buzzing gnat.

Please feel free to broaden our horizons on the topic of where Christ was during the time between his death and resurrection.

Make sure it is supported by scripture otherwise we would have to put anything you say in exactly the same category as you have put Joseph Smith as offering only an interpretation or opininon, not to be taken seriously.

I think you’ll have to wait and see with the rest of us.

Some latter day prophets have had some speculation on such matters. I don’t think there is scripture that tells us much besides he suffered all the sins of mankind, and ministered to those locked in a spiritual prison of sorts.

Any idea what a spiritual prison is?

[Azrael]

I wonder how he suffered all the sins of mankind.

Is it possible he lived one or more mortal lives, where he committed those sins and repent of them so he would understand all the sins of the world for some greater purpose?

Speculation of course.

[Azrael]

I am considering the scripture itself, not Smith’s interpretation. He was just a prophet, not Messiah or Father.

So one minute you paint Smith in grandiose and marvelous strokes and the next he's just a "prophet" who can be taken or left without intrepidation. A buzzing gnat.

Please feel free to broaden our horizons on the topic of where Christ was during the time between his death and resurrection.

Make sure it is supported by scripture otherwise we would have to put anything you say in exactly the same category as you have put Joseph Smith as offering only an interpretation or opininon, not to be taken seriously.

No, one minute I said he was a true prophet, then I said he made mistakes.

[Palerider]

Azrael....

You have done nothing on this website except express your opinion. You haven't shown one piece of documentation for anything you have said. You have either mis-quoted or misunderstood all of the scripture you have referred to without actually showing us the scripture.

You have speculated continually and expected us to simply take your word for it that you actually know what you're talking about. But you are quite comfortable telling us that we are mis- interpreting scripture.

When we have asked for a logical, scripture supported exegetic on a number of topics you have produced nothing and have deflected by asking more questions that you obviously don't know the answers to yourself.

It is painfully obvious now that you have no direct knowledge of scripture or the ability to discern the difference between your own speculations and what may be considered real scripture.

With these things in mind I think a continuation of the conversation would be quite fruitless. You are entirely unprepared.

Best of luck!

[Azrael]

That’s quite a few blankets you’re throwing around there.

[Anon70]

That’s quite a few blankets you’re throwing around there.

Would you care to refute with evidence and sources?

[Azrael]

I haven’t refuted much, I’ve been refuted.

[Hagoth]

I wonder how he suffered all the sins of mankind.

Is it possible he lived one or more mortal lives, where he committed those sins and repent of them so he would understand all the sins of the world for some greater purpose?

Speculation of course.

I'll go with that. We are all Jesus. We all atoned for each other's sins and our personal doctrines, no matter how wacky, have as much authority and value as anyone else's.

Merry Christmas to my fellow Jesi!

[RubinHighlander]

We are all Jesus. We all atoned for each other's sins and our personal doctrines, no matter how wacky, have as much authority and value as anyone else's.

Merry Christmas to my fellow Jesi!

Merry messmess to you Hagoth! Happy birfday Jebus!

[Azrael]

I wonder how he suffered all the sins of mankind.

Is it possible he lived one or more mortal lives, where he committed those sins and repent of them so he would understand all the sins of the world for some greater purpose?

Speculation of course.

I'll go with that. We are all Jesus. We all atoned for each other's sins and our personal doctrines, no matter how wacky, have as much authority and value as anyone else's.

Merry Christmas to my fellow Jesi!

Except you are you, and Jesus is the Alpha.

[Hagoth]

Except you are you, and Jesus is the Alpha.

And we all take ourselves just a little bit too seriously.

[Azrael]

Except you are you, and Jesus is the Alpha.

And we all take ourselves just a little bit too seriously.

To what extend does Messiah’s sense of humor excuse such irreverence at our judgements?

[Hagoth]

Except you are you, and Jesus is the Alpha.

And we all take ourselves just a little bit too seriously.

To what extend does Messiah’s sense of humor excuse such irreverence at our judgements?

Exactly!

[Palerider]

I haven’t refuted much, I’ve been refuted.

This is the first accurate thing you have said. You truly have been refuted.

Have you ever considered the mormondialogue.org website?

[RubinHighlander]

I’m sorry you’ve come to this conclusion. My experience has been amazing concerning the Holy Spirit and prayer.

Do you think your amazing experience with the Holy Spirit was more amazing than the millions of other people out there that are of various faiths of religions? Here's just a few of the people around the world who explain their spiritual experiences across a spectrum of religions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMSU8Qj6Go

Will you invalidate those who profess deep emotional experiences that brought them to a conclusion of their faith as the true path for their lives? Mormons do this all the time. "Well, they have some truth, but not the whole truth." Or they flat out say that those people were deceived because they believe in a cult or non-christian religion.

Do you see the similarities between what all of these people describe? They prayed to find the one way, the only right way and they got the answers they were looking for. Were they really all deceived by Satan? Was it not the Holy Ghost that brought them this peace of mind and emotional comfort?

I had several deep spiritual experiences with the Holy Ghost over my many years as a true believing mormon. It was one of the things I really struggled with when I discovered the truth about many things I was taught or came to believe through study that turned not to be true. It was the cause of much painful cogdis. When I made the decision to exercise some faith that maybe I was deceived, maybe all the religion I was taught most of my life was BS, that helped me to relax and find more happiness and peace than I'd ever experienced before. This lead me to the greatest spiritual experience I'd ever had before, one night by myself, out in the mountains by a lake, looking at the billions of stars and the Milky Way Galaxy reflecting off the calm water. It was here I expressed basic and sincere gratitude to the universe for my existence and made it clear that I had absolutely no expectation that anything or anyone out there was listening. The was the purest spiritual experience of my life thus far, unspoiled by any religious dogma whatsoever. It bought me to tears and finally gave me the peace I was looking for that shuffling off all of that past religious dogma was the absolute right answer.

So go ahead, invalidate my personal experience and all the others out there that are not inline with your way of religious thinking. Tell me that wasn't really the Holy Ghost. That's cool because my mind experience it wasn't the Holy Ghost or any number of other magical entities or Gods that man has created in the worlds of religion. It was just me appreciating my life and having a deep emotional experience. Tell me I was deceived by the Devil and I'll tell you that you know nothing about religious history and how the Devil/Satan came to be invented by men over time. The invention of the Devil was nothing more than a way to drive fear into believer so they would be motivated to follow the dogma. Fear, guilt, the promise of a magical paradise beyond, resurrection, these are all devices of religion and some of governments to keep people plugged into the matrix and keep them donating time and money to their narcissistic religious leaders.

You can claim you are no longer part of those organizations that have lost the true way, but then you are setting yourself up as a prophet and why should we believe you know the one true way over any of those others? Saying the Joseph Smith starting something that was good and true, but then lost his way, it sounds like you are not afraid to debunk false prophets. If that's the case, would you be afraid to take a deep dive into the historical facts about the bible? What if the facts unraveled all the stories about Jesus, the same way they unraveled Joseph Smith? I'm glad to see you studying Judaism and I hope you discover many of the facts as to where they borrowed much of their dogma from the Babylonians and other cultures to create their own dogma. If you study it closely and openly, you'll see a pattern there, one that most other religions also follow when they create a following and make those followers feel like they are the few chosen super special ones on the planet who know God's one true way. The name of that pattern is Tribalism.
Debunking Prophets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opx8iDvR_nU&t=173s
Religion is a Bad Parent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eam-z1bwrk

Good luck out there in your search for peace and truth!

[Azrael]

And we all take ourselves just a little bit too seriously.

To what extend does Messiah’s sense of humor excuse such irreverence at our judgements?

Exactly!

I read your PM, the forums won’t allow me to respond. I think the account I created via TapATalk is inadequate, but I don’t see an obvious way to fix it.

I’m from back East. I’m in SLC fairly often for various reasons. I’m always down for a lunch assuming you aren’t dangerous.

[Emower]

To what extend does Messiah’s sense of humor excuse such irreverence at our judgements?

Exactly!

I read your PM, the forums won’t allow me to respond. I think the account I created via TapATalk is inadequate, but I don’t see an obvious way to fix it.

I’m from back East. I’m in SLC fairly often for various reasons. I’m always down for a lunch assuming you aren’t dangerous.

He is an Indian riding a tapir. Go into this with your eyes open and your tomahawk ready...

[Azrael]

Exactly!

I read your PM, the forums won’t allow me to respond. I think the account I created via TapATalk is inadequate, but I don’t see an obvious way to fix it.

I’m from back East. I’m in SLC fairly often for various reasons. I’m always down for a lunch assuming you aren’t dangerous.

He is an Indian riding a tapir. Go into this with your eyes open and your tomahawk ready...

Does he moderate or perhaps admin this community?

[Hagoth]

I read your PM, the forums won’t allow me to respond. I think the account I created via TapATalk is inadequate, but I don’t see an obvious way to fix it.

I’m from back East. I’m in SLC fairly often for various reasons. I’m always down for a lunch assuming you aren’t dangerous.

He is an Indian riding a tapir. Go into this with your eyes open and your tomahawk ready...

Does he moderate or perhaps admin this community?

I just own the domain. There are a couple of amazing people here who do the heavy lifting. This is a very loosely moderated community but we do censor or expel people from time to time if they are not in line with the general purpose of the forum, which is mutual support for people who no longer believe all or most of the Mormon/LDS/churchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaints/JosephSmith doctrine and origin stories, or who come here to preach to us.

[Emower]

He is an Indian riding a tapir. Go into this with your eyes open and your tomahawk ready...

Does he moderate or perhaps admin this community?

I just own the domain. There are a couple of amazing people here who do the heavy lifting. This is a very loosely moderated community but we do censor or expel people from time to time if they are not in line with the general purpose of the forum, which is mutual support for people who no longer believe all or most of the Mormon/LDS/churchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaints/JosephSmith doctrine and origin stories, or who come here to preach to us.

This board is the passionate lovechild resulting from a tender-hearted indian and a sarcastic pirate.