Losing the Battle

[slavereeno]

My soon to be adult son just revealed to DW that he doesn't want to talk to me about anything real deep anymore because I have "strange views" about the church.

I guess he doesn't feel like he can open up to me anymore. This hurts particularly because I thought I had helped him to open up before because of my different beliefs, apparently I have effed up this relationship also... How many more will go down the drain with this mess?

[Emower]

Man, I am sorry brother. Focus on talking about other stuff I suppose. I think the best thing we can all hope for is to be honest, and then focus on being a good guy. Or gal.

I pray that the great pasta god will reach out and touch you deeply with his noodly appendage.

[IT_Veteran]

So sorry my friend, that’s brutal. I didn’t want to talk to my parents about anything deep because I thought they didn’t know anything. Just love him, he’ll be back. You guys may never see eye to eye on the church, you can find other things to connect on. I was 20 and on my first deployment when I emailed my parents and told them I was sorry I hadn’t listened to them more often.

It’s never too late to reconnect. I’ve found that as I transitioned to adulthood the relationship with my parents changed to one of friendship rather than opposition - if you find common ground I think you’ll be okay.

Sorry I’m rambling a bit - I’m a couple drinks in...

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

You are describing my relationship with my Dad growing up. I can tell you from personal experience that your son will continue to experience cognitive dissonance and discomfort over you being in stage 4 while he resides in stage 3. Try not to take it personally and realize the psychology going on. If you live happily and authentically it can actually be a catalyst for future growth for him. He will understand someday.

[Red Ryder]

My soon to be adult son just revealed to DW that he doesn't want to talk to me about anything real deep anymore because I have "strange views" about the church.

There's Schwarzenegger level irony going on here. Church doctrine is an inch deep and a mile wide. Talking about anything deep means he's hitting his head on the shallow boundaries of Mormonism.

My rules of TBM engagement are:

1. Don't engage with TBMs about church talk.
2. See rule #1

Now I know this is difficult to do, but it's better for the relationship because they can't provide validation and understanding that you need, and they think your deceived by Stan and are contagious.

Seriously though, sit down with your son and express your love for him and your love of learning new things. Explain that your relationship comes first and that you are a safe place to discuss anything.

I guess he doesn't feel like he can open up to me anymore. This hurts particularly because I thought I had helped him to open up before because of my different beliefs, apparently I have effed up this relationship also... How many more will go down the drain with this mess?

This is truly one of the sad side affects of questioning Mormonism. One way to counter this is by building up your most vulnerable relationships. As we talked about at lunch, focus on being the best damn husband, father, son, neighbor, etc. you can be rebuild the gaps left by your disbelief in Mormonism.

Last but not least, remember....

You are not the crazy one!

[wtfluff]

That is a really krappy situation Slaver...

I agree with others. Stick with the "take it slow" mantra, and maybe just back off slightly from sharing too many truths and facts? But don't feel guilty for sharing truth and facts.

I also think that your kid will eventually come around. I've seen it happen with a couple of my kids. Eventually reality sets in and they can see you as the good person you are, doing your best to be that good person. Usually they eventually figure out that the LDS Corporation is actually the institution promoting "strange views" that don't mesh with actual reality.

[moksha]

Losing a son to Mormonism is probably like losing a son to a coma. It hurts, but there is always a hope he will snap out of it.

BTW, adulthood does not arrive on a chronological date. It is more like a gradual process. Give him time for adulthood to truly arrive.

[Hagoth]

Ugh. This is the worst aspect of the "families are forever" church.

[slavereeno]

Thank you all for the replies! Lots of great advice, I told him when we discussed belief before that I would support him in his belief. Seems like he is mostly concerned that I will be judgemental of him for choosing to serve a mission or wanting to do his bp interviews without a parent.

I pray that the great pasta god will reach out and touch you deeply with his noodly appendage.

I can feel them now, the noodly appendages caressing me in a clammy embrace.

It’s never too late to reconnect.

Try not to take it personally and realize the psychology going on.

I need to be patient and not overreact, I am feeling a little better about things today, but I think this has upset DW a little.

focus on being the best damn husband, father, son, neighbor, etc. you can be rebuild the gaps left by your disbelief in Mormonism.

Last but not least, remember....

You are not the crazy one!

Good advice. I am currently surrounded on all sides with no allies in the family or neighborhood, its a one man show.

I also think that your kid will eventually come around. I've seen it happen with a couple of my kids. Eventually reality sets in and they can see you as the good person you are, doing your best to be that good person. Usually they eventually figure out that the LDS Corporation is actually the institution promoting "strange views" that don't mesh with actual reality.

thanks, what is sad is how much I am personally responsible for his mental conditioning.

BTW, adulthood does not arrive on a chronological date. It is more like a gradual process. Give him time for adulthood to truly arrive.

Very true with this DS in particular...

[Newme]

Slavereeno,
I can relate. About a year ago, DS & I left our very Mormon town in UT & traveled abroad and afterwards he told me he realized that many people seem happier without Mormonism & he was thinking how he could serve in better ways than a Mormon mission. I warned him about the pressure he’ll probably get to go on a mission. Well, lately, the bishop & Stake pres have been pressuring him, besides his friends having farewells almost every Sunday - & everyone constantly asking his plans. So, lately, he seems a bit short with me & I’ve backed off & (suggested options &) told him something to the extent that it’s up to him what he wants to do.

I wonder if in both our sons’ cases - if the peer pressure is overwhelming and they feel torn in some ways.

[Raylan Givens]

You are in the position my FIL was in for decades. He quietly supported us and said he loved us. When we walked away, he gave us a hug and expressed his love and support for us.

I love the guy, and hope that I can hold my tongue as well as he could. Once I gave myself permission to think, his face and subtle ideas came to my brain...once it gets in there...

Hang in there, hopefully the "tentacles of Divine Providence" will pull him toward you.

(My phone kept trying change to testicles, that too...)

[slavereeno]

I wonder if in both our sons’ cases - if the peer pressure is overwhelming and they feel torn in some ways.

This. DS has to answer the "So are you planning on going on a misison when you graduate?" question at least 3 times a week. His friends have been inviting him to "mission prep" but he has yet to go...

You are in the position my FIL was in for decades. He quietly supported us and said he loved us. When we walked away, he gave us a hug and expressed his love and support for us.

Wow, that's awesome. I have some serious respect for anybody who got out before or around 2000, not a lot of support out there.

(My phone kept trying change to testicles, that too...)

Maybe Fanny Alger knows about that particular providence

[græy]

Just saw this post slavereeno. I'm sorry, that must have hurt to hear.

Your son is going to do what he feels he needs to do. Eventually, he will start to see that things don't add up. I'm more and more convinced the most people catch glimpses of real truth at some point in their lives. Or in Mormon-language, they start to doubt some things. I think most people are so afraid of holding on to those doubts, or looking into other areas of concern because they have no support and fear rejection from their families.

It will happen to your son, only he will be different. He'll know he has somewhere safe to go, someone safe to talk to. Until then, just try to connect with him any way you can. Let him know you support him, and let the church do its own thing until your son sees what is actually happening.

[moksha]

Losing a son to Mormonism is probably like losing a son to a coma. It hurts, but there is always a hope he will snap out of it.

That is a bit unfair. Being a Saint (formerly a Mormon) does not mean you have to close off your heart and mind. Without much effort, they can not only think for themselves but also exercise their humanity.

[achilles]

I'm very sorry for how this must have felt to hear.

I was a "nearly adult" kid that would never talk to my parents about anything "deep" for similar reasons. Well, adulthood often has a way of beating both your developmentally appropriate adolescence and Fowler Stage 3-ness right out of you. It sucks, but it probably is developmentally appropriate for him to be where he is. Some kids have to move "away" from you before they can move back "toward" you. I was one of those.

[Random]

I am currently surrounded on all sides with no allies in the family or neighborhood, its a one man show.

That's rough. I'm glad you have this forum to support you.

[slavereeno]

I am currently surrounded on all sides with no allies in the family or neighborhood, its a one man show.

That's rough. I'm glad you have this forum to support you.

Me too!! Thanks all you all for helping me keep my sanity!! I have family in from out of town and when my family all gets together all they can do is talk about how awesome the church is and how they would just wet themselves with excitement if they could talk to the profit even Russil Emm Neltsin.

My nephew told a story last night about how he is on the brink of converting a cow-worker who thought that JS jr. having a seer stone was "really cool!" and now this kid wants to join the church. Then they went off for about an hour about how RMN was a true "revelator" and how inspired ministering is. I had to leave the room because I didn't want my eyes to roll out of their sockets.

[wtfluff]

I had to leave the room because I didn't want my eyes to roll out of their sockets.

I leave the room LOTS when I spend too much time around believing family members.

[Newme]

I'm very sorry for how this must have felt to hear.

I was a "nearly adult" kid that would never talk to my parents about anything "deep" for similar reasons. Well, adulthood often has a way of beating both your developmentally appropriate adolescence and Fowler Stage 3-ness right out of you. It sucks, but it probably is developmentally appropriate for him to be where he is. Some kids have to move "away" from you before they can move back "toward" you. I was one of those.

I think that’s very true.
Maybe that explains why some TBMs I know who have lived their entire lives in the same neighborhood or even the same house - haven’t graduated from tbm-ness.

[Just This Guy]

Slavereeno,
I can relate. About a year ago, DS & I left our very Mormon town in UT & traveled abroad and afterwards he told me he realized that many people seem happier without Mormonism & he was thinking how he could serve in better ways than a Mormon mission. I warned him about the pressure he’ll probably get to go on a mission. Well, lately, the bishop & Stake pres have been pressuring him, besides his friends having farewells almost every Sunday - & everyone constantly asking his plans. So, lately, he seems a bit short with me & I’ve backed off & (suggested options &) told him something to the extent that it’s up to him what he wants to do.

I wonder if in both our sons’ cases - if the peer pressure is overwhelming and they feel torn in some ways.

Maybe suggest some out of state colleges he can attend. Especially something out of state enough it is out of the MorCor. Attending a college somewhere were Mormonism is not a factor in everyday life may help him regain perspective.

If you need cheap college, Try West Virginia University. Low cost, even for out-of-state tuition. Good school. Great engineering and medical programs But I'm bias on that one.