Joseph Smith and L Ron Hubbard -- both malignant narcisists

[Rob4Hope]

Been watching Leah Remini. I haven't seen all the episodes so started at the beginning for a serious watch. OH MY CRAP!....Scientology is wacko! Problem is, as I'm watching those shows, I'm also seeing LDS in there, just a more subtle level.

Found this article. If you read it, you will see below where they actually mention JS.

https://www.quora.com/Was-L-Ron-Hubbard ... t-a-nutjob

Thoughts?

Here is an academic paper that actually talks quite a bit about JS:

https://skent.ualberta.ca/wp-content/up ... 8-2008.pdf

[2bizE]

JS was also a necromancer.

[Not Buying It]

L. Ron Hubbard is the best analog to Joseph Smith that we've had in modern times. He had a fantastic imagination, produced staggeringly prodigious amounts of bullcrap, at times seemed to genuinely believe the bullcrap he obviously knew he had just pulled out of his butt, used his charisma to attract millions of followers, and got weirder and weirder as he got older. And power-hungry followers were able to continue his organization after he died, David Miscavige is Brigham Young to Hubbard's Joseph Smith. Hubbard truly was the Joseph Smith of the 20th Century. L. Ron Hubbard forever destroys the argument that Joseph Smith could not have accomplished all he did unless he was a true prophet.

[Hagoth]

...and got weirder and weirder as he got older.

One of my greatest regrets is that we were robbed of seeing Joseph Smith's golden years.

[Rob4Hope]

L. Ron Hubbard forever destroys the argument that Joseph Smith could not have accomplished all he did unless he was a true prophet.

I love this site. I've never considered this, but having it said, it makes total sense.

L. Ron Hubbard was a nut! and he really did push out a lot of material.

[20/20hind]

Moroni told Joseph his name would be known for good and evil. L. Ron Hubbard could have said the very same thing about himself.

[blazerb]

I think Brigham Young has met his twin in David Miscavige, also. They both use(d) some pretty Machiavellian techniques to establish and maintain power. It does appear that BY was much more successful in establishing his religion than Miscavige will be, though.

[Rob4Hope]

I think Brigham Young has met his twin in David Miscavige, also. They both use(d) some pretty Machiavellian techniques to establish and maintain power. It does appear that BY was much more successful in establishing his religion than Miscavige will be, though.

L Ron Hubbard < -- > Joseph Smith
Brigham Young < -- > David Miscavige.

This is creepy sh!t folks!!!!! There are some actual parallels here in a weird way!

[Palerider]

I think Brigham Young has met his twin in David Miscavige, also. They both use(d) some pretty Machiavellian techniques to establish and maintain power. It does appear that BY was much more successful in establishing his religion than Miscavige will be, though.

Part of Brigham's success was that he literally had a captive audience. Once a convert struggled so hard to get to Salt Lake there was great difficulty in leaving, having spent their last penny to get there. Many even owed the church money from the "immigration fund" which the church could call in the loan on at any time.

I think many chose to stay not because they loved the church but because they were afraid to leave.

Social and economic coercion. Hard to beat.

[Rob4Hope]

Just got to the part of Leah Remini's shows where they talked about David Miscavige and how he consolidated power after LRH died. It was FASCINATING!!!! I saw all kinds of parallels to Brigham Young. It was uncanny.

Brigham took steps to re-org the 12 so that his legacy could be continued. There are rumors he went after Samuel Smith who might have had a claim. He took steps against Rigdon and others. There was blood atonement used to keep people from challenging him...etc.

WOW

[MalcolmVillager]

Been watching Leah Remini. I haven't seen all the episodes so started at the beginning for a serious watch. OH MY CRAP!....Scientology is wacko! Problem is, as I'm watching those shows, I'm also seeing LDS in there, just a more subtle level.

Found this article. If you read it, you will see below where they actually mention JS.

https://www.quora.com/Was-L-Ron-Hubbard ... t-a-nutjob

Thoughts?

Here is an academic paper that actually talks quite a bit about JS:

https://skent.ualberta.ca/wp-content/up ... 8-2008.pdf

I have watched those with DW. It may have helped crack her shelf a bit more. Fascinating and close to home in many ways.

Funny, while reading the Quora article I got a sponsored post from the COJCOLDS. "Can you learn about God by reading the BOM?" And it takes you to a link to get a free BOM.

So tithing could be funding an over the top, hypocritical, alms before men "Light the World" campaign or Quora ads. I wonder how productive those are. Advertising to people searching the interwebs for truth?!!! I cant see that playing out well most of the time.

[Rob4Hope]

I'm still watching. Into the second season.

In one of those episodes, there was talk about the money...the BIG MONEY in Scientology. Apparently, members pay in advance for their auditing and training sessions--but in such a way that the money is kept inside the church, especially if you are labeled a subversive person. The church of Scientology is alleged to have BILLIONS in reserves.

I found myself seeing parallels all over the place on this one. The COS constructs building to show an image of growth and influence; however, most of those building, though lavish, are dormant--no occupants other than staff to clean and occasionally occupy. The LDS system constructs shopping centers, massive cultural halls, temples and buildings over and over, and then schedules them in such a way to leave them unoccupied because there aren't enough patrons to fill the doors.

Leah Remini mentioned that you typically would expect a church to be spending its money to help people. The COS, in her opinion, is a lying deceitful farce in this regard; money is spent to aggrandize themselves to the world, but it is two-faced with helping people.

You know?.....I have to admit I felt like that point hit the LDS church right between the eyes as well. For that billion dollar shopping center, how many people could the LDS church have fed?

Thoughts?

[Palerider]

For that billion collar shopping center, how many people could the LDS church have fed?

Thoughts?

Better yet, how many members could have been EDUCATED?!?!

Feeding people is only a temporary fix. Really want to help people?

Teach them good morals and help them gain marketable skills. Education is the best investment a church could make if it has the funds to help.

Even from a cynical point of view, the church would make all that money back through increased tithing. They just seem to be extremely short sighted in this area.

The current "education loan fund" is a poor excuse for what they really could be doing.

[RubinHighlander]

I have to admit I felt like that point hit the LDS church right between the eyes as well. For that billion collar shopping center, how many people could the LDS church have fed?

Thoughts?

This was a big one for me as far as shelf crushing items. Finding out how much the church is worth vs. how much they actually spend on feeding and clothing people vs. how much they play it up in the media and with the members that they do in humanitarian effort. What a joke! Most of the humanitarian aid and effort they bilk from the members in time and money above and in addition to the tithing donations. Yet, the percentage still pales it comparison to their accumulated wealth and investments. And then they still qualify as a non-profit and are not accountable to report how they spend the donations. All those years paying my hard earned dollars to that corporation...I feel like I was in a slave race miniverse, like on Rick and Morty. If you have not seen that episode you should:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ricks_Must_Be_Crazy

[wtfluff]

Better yet, how many members could have been EDUCATED?!?!

Feeding people is only a temporary fix. Really want to help people?

Teach them good morals and help them gain marketable skills. Education is the best investment a church could make if it has the funds to help.

Oh, but that's what all the "BYU"s are for, don't-cha know?

[YES THIS IS AS SARCASM]

[Palerider]

Better yet, how many members could have been EDUCATED?!?!

Feeding people is only a temporary fix. Really want to help people?

Teach them good morals and help them gain marketable skills. Education is the best investment a church could make if it has the funds to help.

Oh, but that's what all the "BYU"s are for, don't-cha know?

[YES THIS IS AS SARCASM]

Right.

And as I understand it the tuition at the BYUs isn't really too bad. But I think the church could help out so much more than they do with the cost of education for the impoverished.

If a person is in grinding poverty and tuition is only $5000 a year it's still too much.

I think this especially applies to women who may have made mistakes and have children or are divorced with children and ex-husbands who can't or won't pay child support.

Or even men who would like to support their families better but can't afford to go to school.

Maybe the church figures they would be rewarding bad behavior. I doubt the Savior would see it that way. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone deserves a second chance to get it right.

But.... let's build a mall so that downtown Salt Lake looks good and prosperous. Appearances are everything, right???

[sunstoned]

Leah Remini just did a show on the Jehovah Witnesses. It would be very interesting if she ever got around to doing a special on the church.

[Palerider]

Leah Remini just did a show on the Jehovah Witnesses. It would be very interesting if she ever got around to doing a special on the y.

It would be good.

The problem is the church walks a very fine line between cult and legitimate religion. They have a very good PR department that sells them very well.

You have to dig pretty deep and find a way to present the material in a way that the average viewer can digest without confusion or boredom.

The problems are there they just hide very well.

[Reuben]

Leah Remini just did a show on the Jehovah Witnesses. It would be very interesting if she ever got around to doing a special on the church.

She's looking into Mormonism:

[RubinHighlander]

She's looking into Mormonism:

That would be a great segue to expose all the similarities. Education is the key to killing these corrupt institutions that are bad for society.