Pedogamy

[RubinHighlander]

Interesting research into child brides and the fallacy of apologist arguments it was common place.

http://www.theutahbee.com/2018/11/13/se ... bThQDAk6yc

Anyone else see this?

[jfro18]

That's just horrifying.

I won't lie - I would love to see stats of the age breakdown vs the country as a whole. I assume that's been done on some level by others, but that would be a good way to see just how awful polygamy was.

So sickening...

[Red Ryder]

That's just horrifying.

I won't lie - I would love to see stats of the age breakdown vs the country as a whole. I assume that's been done on some level by others, but that would be a good way to see just how awful polygamy was.

So sickening...

Someone posted this in reddit.

[deacon blues]

Fascinating. I noticed Brian Hales weighed in with his own comments. The Church was definitely a C___ in the 19th century, and it can't seem to shake off that heritage.


Oh Zion, shake off your rags of injustice and repent. Why dost thou dimly see the mote in thy neighbors eye and and yet not see the beam in thine own? Why dost thou worry about how thou art called, and omit the weightier matters: justice, repentance, succoring thy neighbor, and forgiveness. God of Truth and Love, have mercy on us all.

[wtfluff]

I am a direct descendant of a union just like those mentioned in the linked article.

I wonder why my parents and relatives never mentioned that fact while telling all of the "legends" about my G-G-Grandfather?

[alas]

I am a direct descendant of a union just like the those mentioned in the linked article.

I wonder why my parents and relatives never mentioned that fact while telling all of the "legends" about my G-G-Grandfather?

My mother did tell me some of the stories in my family history. Come to think of it, so did my father, but he was very misogynistic about it, so I didn’t really believe that his version was correct or fair. But my mother told me about the first wife left back east because having just had a baby, they didn’t think she or the child should travel. So, dear hubby took the older children and went west. He of course found a nice woman to “help” him with the children. After the glowing and infatuated way he was talking about this woman who was “helping” him with the children, the first wife figured out that he was unfaithful and after his lying about wife #2 & #3, she never did try to join him. And funny, but he never sent her money, so a woman “too weak to travel” was forced to support herself and her newborn. So odd, don’t you think that the descendants of the baby and wife abandoned in Pennsylvania never would come to the big family reunions in Utah.

Then there was the wife so badly treated when her dear sweet husband married two teenaged sisters after she had given him five children, that she left her children and fled the state. Legally she couldn’t take them as she and the children were property of the husband. But she could run for her life. Brigham had lots of rumors about the women who ran away from Utah mysteriously dying in the desert between Utah and California, so it was quite literally a run for her life. But HER children were not bitter against their father, not a bit.[end sarcasm] The hatred between her children and the rest of his children just lived on for 100 years in Provo.

Maybe knowing some of the horror stories was part of what made me never able to believe that Joseph was really a prophet.

[Stig]

I am a direct descendant of a union just like the those mentioned in the linked article.

I wonder why my parents and relatives never mentioned that fact while telling all of the "legends" about my G-G-Grandfather?

My mother did tell me some of the stories in my family history. Come to think of it, so did my father, but he was very misogynistic about it, so I didn’t really believe that his version was correct or fair. But my mother told me about the first wife left back east because having just had a baby, they didn’t think she or the child should travel. So, dear hubby took the older children and went west. He of course found a nice woman to “help” him with the children. After the glowing and infatuated way he was talking about this woman who was “helping” him with the children, the first wife figured out that he was unfaithful and after his lying about wife #2 & #3, she never did try to join him. And funny, but he never sent her money, so a woman “too weak to travel” was forced to support herself and her newborn. So odd, don’t you think that the descendants of the baby and wife abandoned in Pennsylvania never would come to the big family reunions in Utah.

Then there was the wife so badly treated when her dear sweet husband married two teenaged sisters after she had given him five children, that she left her children and fled the state. Legally she couldn’t take them as she and the children were property of the husband. But she could run for her life. Brigham had lots of rumors about the women who ran away from Utah mysteriously dying in the desert between Utah and California, so it was quite literally a run for her life. But HER children were not bitter against their father, not a bit.[end sarcasm] The hatred between her children and the rest of his children just lived on for 100 years in Provo.

Maybe knowing some of the horror stories was part of what made me never able to believe that Joseph was really a prophet.

Ahhhh, the amazing fruits of polygamy in the early Church! Isn't it wonderful to see God's hand in laying the foundations for future leadership?! [/sarcasm]

[Rob4Hope]

I am a direct descendant of a union just like the those mentioned in the linked article.

I wonder why my parents and relatives never mentioned that fact while telling all of the "legends" about my G-G-Grandfather?

My mother did tell me some of the stories in my family history. Come to think of it, so did my father, but he was very misogynistic about it, so I didn’t really believe that his version was correct or fair. But my mother told me about the first wife left back east because having just had a baby, they didn’t think she or the child should travel. So, dear hubby took the older children and went west. He of course found a nice woman to “help” him with the children. After the glowing and infatuated way he was talking about this woman who was “helping” him with the children, the first wife figured out that he was unfaithful and after his lying about wife #2 & #3, she never did try to join him. And funny, but he never sent her money, so a woman “too weak to travel” was forced to support herself and her newborn. So odd, don’t you think that the descendants of the baby and wife abandoned in Pennsylvania never would come to the big family reunions in Utah.

Then there was the wife so badly treated when her dear sweet husband married two teenaged sisters after she had given him five children, that she left her children and fled the state. Legally she couldn’t take them as she and the children were property of the husband. But she could run for her life. Brigham had lots of rumors about the women who ran away from Utah mysteriously dying in the desert between Utah and California, so it was quite literally a run for her life. But HER children were not bitter against their father, not a bit.[end sarcasm] The hatred between her children and the rest of his children just lived on for 100 years in Provo.

Maybe knowing some of the horror stories was part of what made me never able to believe that Joseph was really a prophet.

This reminded me of the time Brigham apparently stood up and told all the women to either live their religion or he would grant them all divorces (speaking to a general assembly). Apologists point to this and say: "See...they were given choices! It wasn't abusive!" But, truth be told, there were all kinds of murders of people who left.

Brigham was an evil man. He was full of himself like Bruce McConkie,...but also wielded a lawlessness that to him, justified murder as a way to redeem someones soul.

HOW UTTERLY REVOLTING!

[slavereeno]

My TBM friend said something along the lines of:

If you read Helen Mar Kimball's later journals she was so glad that she ended up married to Joseph Smith so it really was God's will, the church is still true!

I'm paraphrasing.

[græy]

I saw Lindsay's post on reddit last night after I got home from bishopric meeting. I read large portions of it to my wife before bed. It's been a rough week, and this article just made me feel sick.

At times, my wife and I can have seemingly open and honest conversations about the church. But then others, she clams up and toes the party line. "Polygamy was of God, but a few men corrupted it with their own greed and lusts." She admitted feeling sick at the information in this post, but she doesn't believe that this was Joseph Smith's fault any more than it is her's.

To me it was simple. Mathematically polygamy doesn't work. Either women should outnumber men 10, 20, or 50 to one (they don't), or according to the "restored gospel of Jesus Christ" we men are just screwed from the get-go. In a world where most of the women are married to only a select subset of men, the remaining men can never be married, even to one wife. Since polygamy (or at the very least, marriage) is required for exaltation, that means the vast majority of men would NEVER, could NEVER, be exalted. So what's the point?

In the words of Adlai Atkins, I personally am "999,999 in a million", I'm "perfectly adequate", but I'm nothing special. I would be one of the masses of men who isn't extraordinary enough to warrant a shot at eternal increase. According to the gospel of polygamy, I can't be saved, I would never be exalted.

Polygamy is NOT something a loving God would ever impose. It just isn't.

Pedogamy is the fruit of an idea imposed by corrupt, fraudulent, reprobate, would-be profit.

[Rob4Hope]

I was able to finally get into the the article (was blocked on my local machine).

Makes you sick. Brigham was a piece of sh!t. He didn't care for the women...they were just something to be used.

I can't imagine how he became such a leader as it were. He was horrible.

[Yobispo]

I was able to finally get into the the article (was blocked on my local machine).

Makes you sick. Brigham was a piece of sh!t. He didn't care for the women...they were just something to be used.

I can't imagine how he became such a leader as it were. He was horrible.

Just a reminder that there is a statue of him in the US Capitol. And a big ol university and a town in northern utah named for this man.

[slavereeno]

I was able to finally get into the the article (was blocked on my local machine).

Makes you sick. Brigham was a piece of sh!t. He didn't care for the women...they were just something to be used.

I can't imagine how he became such a leader as it were. He was horrible.

Just a reminder that there is a statue of him in the US Capitol. And a big ol university and a town in northern utah named for this man.

And a religion with millions of members that hinges on his divine appointment as prophet.