Faith Crisis Report

[Red Ryder]

Did you all see this? It's an in depth report on Faith Crisis. An excellent read and resource.

Cross posting from Reddit. Reddit Link

Greg Prince and Travis Stratford, members of the team that led this project, have granted permission for release of the following:

Faith Crisis Report

Report prepared for Dieter Uchtdorf in 2013, presented to him by Marlin Jensen. The report includes a recap of their 2011 research and was meant to inform him and other general authorities so they could better understand what is happening (and take appropriate measures to compassionately address it).

Faith Crisis Chronicles

Includes a number of qualitative narratives collected in 2013 as part of a separate survey (some of these inputs were included in the Uchtdorf report). Dieter later indicated that he read each of these narratives.

BYU-H Symposium Presentation

Part of this presentation focused on “user generated content” in the post-Mormon community and included a site-traffic analysis and growth projection for the r/exmormon subreddit. Back in Oct 2016, there were 34K registered members of that community. Today there are almost 97K registered members, which is more or less on target per the projection to reach 200K in 2020. And while the number of registered users is impressive, the number of “lurkers” and level of engagement per user is especially fascinating. See Slides 17–31 for more info.

[Red Ryder]

Top 10 Survey Findings:

Numbers 8 and 9 are so understated! Those two are the ones I want my family to understand the most. Sigh....

SURVEY
KEY FINDINGS
1. The significant majority of survey respondents represent long-term members who were (until recently) actively engaged and holding leadership and other callings.

2. Members in faith crisis tend to be married, more educated than average, and earn higher-than-average incomes.

3. A little less than half of these disbelievers remain active in the Church, while over half no longer attend.

4. The majority of those who left did so in the past seven years.

5. Among historical issues, the Book of Abraham and Polygamy/Polyandry are the most significant factors leading to loss-of-belief.

6. Although some factors rate higher than others, respondents indicate the exposure to several factors (historical + social issues) collectively led to their disbelief.

7. Spouses tend to be aware of the Faith Crisis issue. Church leaders and friends tend to be less aware.

8. Members in Faith Crisis who attend Church regularly tend to suffer the most mental and spiritual anguish as a result of their discovering these issues.

9. For many, Faith Crisis extracts an extremely high cost in spousal and familial relationships.

10. A strong sense of betrayal often accompanies a member’s loss-of-faith.

[jfro18]

I love that this is a bullet point: "When factoring median income for these Faith Crisis respondents, the Church
incurs an estimated tithing-revenue loss of $281 Million over ten years (at $2.5
million per chapel, that represents a theoretical loss of 112 chapels)"

[Kishkumen]

They fucking know all the problems.
They've known since 2013
This the fucking best they can do 5 fucking years later?

[Arcturus]

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing RedRyder. Going to spend some time with this.

[jfro18]

This is AMAZING.

And I mean that in the worst way possible.

They know every single problem with the church and they CONTINUE TO LIE ABOUT THEM.

Saints just came out a few months ago and lies about all of the problems being mentioned in here. Maybe not as blatantly, but they are still whitewashing history.

I wish I could get my wife to read this... it's from the church so it's not antagonistic, but it really puts into perspective that I'm not alone in having doubts and that the church knows it's a damned lie.

They obviously don't admit it's a lie, but the stuff on the Book of Abraham is as damning.

Even the strategy at the end is bad - the word "inoculate" is such a horrible word.

I wish my wife could understand this instead of seeing me as the enemy.

[Mormorrisey]

Wow. Thanks for the find, RR. I'm assuming, and it's a big assumption, that Greg Prince et al have been rather frustrated by the lack of action given this report by the corp, and have allowed it to pop up in other locales. Wild times, to be sure.

They fucking know all the problems.
They've known since 2013
This the fucking best they can do 5 fucking years later?

Yep. That's the best they can offer, is this slick, readable yet entirely fluff piece book that continues to whitewash the real history. I can just imagine the shock and inaction that the Prince report caused in the highest levels five years ago, that people are starting to see the wizard behind the curtain - and frankly I think they still are in a state of shock. That explains all the stay in the boat metaphors, the disdain for questioners, and the reinforcement of the obedience motif. I can't imagine much will change for the next five years.

[Red Ryder]

Here's a pretty decent road map:

After exposure to a Faith Crisis catalyst, many members enter the Traumatized Believer stage, which results in exposure to many troubling facts and non-traditional points-of-view. This is a temporary stage that is quickly followed by either the Traumatized Disbeliever or Less-literal Believer stages.

The Traumatized Believer can be described in these terms:

Awareness of Difficult Church History

Multiple, varying First Vision accounts
Joseph’s use of folk magic and treasure digging
Book of Mormon translation (stone / hat)
Masonry and endowment connection
Joseph’s credibility as a translator
Joseph’s polygamy / polyandry
Kinderhook Plates
Denial of priesthood to blacks / racism
Perceived modified role of women’s rights
Mountain Meadows
Blood atonement
Lying for the Lord
Adam / God teachings
Priesthood restoration credibility issues
Post-manifesto polygamy
Lack of historical candor

Awareness of Challenging Scientific Issues

Book of Mormon anachronisms (e.g., horses, steel, chariots, Book of Isaiah, King James errors, etc.)
Native Americans having Asiatic DNA
Book of Abraham text not matching the papyrus
Age of the earth (6,000 years old? No death on earth before the Fall?)
Implausible scriptural accounts (e.g., Noah’s Ark, Jonah in Whale, Tower of Babel, etc.)
Dark skin as a curse
Past statements on evolution

Re-examination of Theology and Doctrine

Apparent God-sanctioned genocide, sexism, racism
One true church with exclusive authority
Taking all scripture literally

Re-examination of Cultural Issues

Feminist awareness and sympathies
Historical racial inequalities
Past and present stance on homosexuality
Political and social conservatism
Culture of perfectionism

Confronting Spiritual Issues

Having had a spiritual witness but not being able to reconcile it with new learnings
Never receiving a spiritual witness (after many sincere attempts)
Feeling bored, unfulfilled, or spiritually unedified in Church activity
Feeling burnt-out / not good enough
Feeling spiritually led elsewhere

Re-examination of Institutional Issues

Culture of unquestioning obedience
Culture of patriarchy
Closed finances
Questionable spending priorities (e.g., City Creek.)

Members who pass through the Traumatized Believer stage tend to never return to the True Believer stage.

Faith Crisis Stages | 44

[RubinHighlander]

DW and I just read through the first PDF. Lots of wow moments! We feel a lot of vindication. Thanks for posting this!

[nibbler]

I wonder if this influenced DFU's October 2013 talk, Come, join with us.

[Corsair]

I wonder if this influenced DFU's October 2013 talk, Come, join with us.

That was the "Doubt your doubts" talk and I think we can all see how effective that bit of advice truly was. As others have noted, this was the response of a guy who is revered as a prophet, see, and revelator. I like Dieter and would enjoy his compassion showing up more in church governance. But this talk was the ecclesiastic version of "mistakes were made, but not by us".

I love that this is a bullet point: "When factoring median income for these Faith Crisis respondents, the Church
incurs an estimated tithing-revenue loss of $281 Million over ten years (at $2.5
million per chapel, that represents a theoretical loss of 112 chapels)"

Money ends up being the most concrete measure of spirituality in this case, as usual. Hitting them in the church bank account is the metric most likely to make them sit up and take notice.

Except, they still don't seem to notice. Oaks' latest talk is entrenched condemnation of liberal ideas and Nelson is still pushing an awkward name change. It appears that they decided to simply take that $281 millon dollar write off and retain the most believing, diligent, and committed segment of the LDS church. The Nelson presidency seems to have a theme of corporate policy restructuring, not theological renewal or tackling difficulties head on.

[Arcturus]

I wonder if this influenced DFU's October 2013 talk, Come, join with us.

That was the "Doubt your doubts" talk and I think we can all see how effective that bit of advice truly was. As others have noted, this was the response of a guy who is revered as a prophet, see, and revelator. I like Dieter and would enjoy his compassion showing up more in church governance. But this talk was the ecclesiastic version of "mistakes were made, but not by us".

I love that this is a bullet point: "When factoring median income for these Faith Crisis respondents, the Church
incurs an estimated tithing-revenue loss of $281 Million over ten years (at $2.5
million per chapel, that represents a theoretical loss of 112 chapels)"

Money ends up being the most concrete measure of spirituality in this case, as usual. Hitting them in the church bank account is the metric most likely to make them sit up and take notice.

Except, they still don't seem to notice. Oaks' latest talk is entrenched condemnation of liberal ideas and Nelson is still pushing an awkward name change. It appears that they decided to simply take that $281 millon dollar write off and retain the most believing, diligent, and committed segment of the LDS church. The Nelson presidency seems to have a theme of corporate policy restructuring, not theological renewal or tackling difficulties head on.

IMO, the church has sufficient capital in store such that their operational needs are now perpetually funded, barring poor management on their part. For example, the drift towards a "home-focused" model will now allow them to stop building chapels because they can consolidate more wards into single buildings.

Tithing may no longer be a significant revenue stream, so in my mind this is not close to a top priority for them. What I suspect keeps them up at night is the fact that they've lost control of the narrative, and how they're going to maintain commitment amongst orthodox Mormons, and keep them from viewing uncorrelated church history and listening to the John Dehlin's of the world, and other anonymous voices as Oaks said last conference.

[jfro18]

If anyone is bored today, I wrote a post about this at https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/ldsblog

For some reason this really both bothered me and made me feel normal all at once.

I am hoping one day down the road I can get my wife to read it, because I think it makes a great case for "thoroughly" researching the issues and also gives weight to cognitive dissonance which my wife dismisses.

Anyway, if anyone reads it and has any suggestions of things I left out or should change, let me know.

I still am blown away by this... to me just shows how aware they were of the lies being taught until they effectively started getting caught.

[MerrieMiss]

For some reason this really both bothered me and made me feel normal all at once.

Same. For me, it hurts because it acknowledges the church knows about this and it's painful to see how easy it would be for the church to put out the message: stop breaking up families and marriages over this. Just stop it. And of course reading through all of this is nice because it validates me. Particularly this one quote, which I could have written myself:

I learned the dishonesty was systematic and institutional, euphemized as ‘correlation,’ on the part of what I had believed to be God’s church—the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth with which God was supposedly well pleased.

By the way, the quote attributed to Givens regarding "Not since Kirtland...." Where/when does Givens say that? The closest reference I can find to that quote is Marlin K. Jensen. Just curious.

[jfro18]

By the way, the quote attributed to Givens regarding "Not since Kirtland...." Where/when does Givens say that? The closest reference I can find to that quote is Marlin K. Jensen. Just curious.

i actually thought it was Jensen too, but the report says Givens. That is odd actually...

And yeah, this report validates me in ways but then also crushes me because my wife will never be on the same page (likely)... and even if I showed this to her she wouldn't acknowledge it even though it's an "official" report.

The references to cognitive dissonance are also amazing - I've tried telling my wife about that and she just thought I was making it up... funny to see the church mention it multiple times.

[Red Ryder]

I think there's a distinction that needs to be made regarding what the church knows and doesn't know.

First, this wasn't a commissioned review and report by the Q15. This was a report by a team of volunteers and allegedly given to a 70 and funneled up to Uchtdorf. There's no evidence this was actually read by anyone in the Q15. This doesn't give them a break or excuse their behavior and lack of compassion towards all of us that have been to hell and back through our FC journey.

Second, this just gives the church it's usual "plausible deniability" which Ballard seems to be promoting in his travels. He's speaking to congregations telling everyone "see, we are as transparent as we know how to be..."

I'm not going to expect the church leadership to do any of the suggestions in these documents. That would be too easy and the right thing. I'm going to expect the church leadership to hunker down and cover their collective ears and yell, "neener neener", we can't hear you and hope this little problem goes away!

[Red Ryder]

If anyone is bored today, I wrote a post about this at https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/ldsblog

For some reason this really both bothered me and made me feel normal all at once.

I am hoping one day down the road I can get my wife to read it, because I think it makes a great case for "thoroughly" researching the issues and also gives weight to cognitive dissonance which my wife dismisses.

Anyway, if anyone reads it and has any suggestions of things I left out or should change, let me know.

I still am blown away by this... to me just shows how aware they were of the lies being taught until they effectively started getting caught.

Great read. However you may want to clarify the source of the survey in the opening paragraph. It wasn't performed or commissioned by the church but rather an independent group of LDS volunteers led by Greg Prince and Travis Stratford and allegedly passed on to church leadership (Uchtdorf) via Marlin Jensen.

From the Reddit post:

Greg Prince and Travis Stratford, members of the team that led this project, have granted permission for release of the following:

Faith Crisis Report

Report prepared for Dieter Uchtdorf in 2013, presented to him by Marlin Jensen. The report includes a recap of their 2011 research and was meant to inform him and other general authorities so they could better understand what is happening (and take appropriate measures to compassionately address it).

[jfro18]

I think there's a distinction that needs to be made regarding what the church knows and doesn't know.

First, this wasn't a commissioned review and report by the Q15. This was a report by a team of volunteers and allegedly given to a 70 and funneled up to Uchtdorf. There's no evidence this was actually read by anyone in the Q15. This doesn't give them a break or excuse their behavior and lack of compassion towards all of us that have been to hell and back through our FC journey.

That's a good point - I just made a point about that at the beginning and end to note that it was not directly commissioned.

Do we know the entire group that created this? Would be curious as to how this was started, and what involvement/consent was given by leadership if any there was.

[Brent]

Sh*t. I'm a Traumatised dis-Believer, Male.

TBM again?

[deacon blues]

I may misunderstand the GA mindset, but could this be a reason Elder Uchtdorf was demoted from the First Presidency? Do some leaders see those who have empathy as being part of the problem?