What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

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Not Buying It
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What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by Not Buying It »

I can't take any credit for this, but I am seriously impressed...

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... uld_bring/
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Labans_Severed_Head
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12 hours ago

Hmmm.... The one thing that would bring the church to its knees?


Probably if modern Egyptology showed the BOA scrolls had nothing to do with Abraham or anything biblical

No. Wait...

Probably if modern scientists did an metalurgical analysis on the Kinderhook Plates and found they were 19th Century Frauds.

No. Wait...

Probably if the Prophet Seers and Revelators bought the Salamander Letter and Oaks defeneded it and FAIR wrote an apologetic piece supporting it and then it turned out it was written by a con artist murderer...

No. Wait...

Probably if Meso American Archeology has proven that horses, steel, barley, grapes, and sheep did not exist in pre-Colombian America contradicting the BOM

No. Wait...

Probably if DNA has proved that there are 0 decendents with Hebrew or Jewish among any Native American tribes on the American Contintents thereby destroying the whole BOM narrative...

No. Wait...

Probably if the central tenet of Mormonism that "As Man is God once was and as God is Man may become" is interwoven in LDS doctrine, in all the manuals, taught by all the prophets including Hinkley and then Hinkley publicly denied it on national television and said "I don't know that we teach that..."

No. Wait...

Probably if the church quietly updated the Bishop's manual to say children of Gays cannot participate in saving ordinances until they are 18 and denounce their parents, and then that update got leaked, and then the church kind of retracted it, and then Elder Christofferson got on national TV and said it was just a policy that might need some adjustments and was a work in progress and then 2 months later Russell M. Nelson said the policy was a direct revelation from God to Tommy Monson basically contradicting his fellow Seer and Revelator Christofferson.

No. Wait...

Probably if some concerned members publish a book named CES Letter and a website calle mormonthink which creates an easy place to find the true history of the church that has been whitewashed and covered up which creates waves and everybody calls these sources anti-Mormon lies, but then it snowballs and so the church has to publish their own essays and a book called the Saints which essentially admits all the stuff they called anti Mormon "Lies" that they were exing people over was really true and not lies afterall.

No. Wait...

Probably if modern book cataloging software ran Joseph's Smith's translation of the Bible against an old 18th century Bible study guide written by a guy named Adam Clarke and it shows that JS just ripped Adam Clarke's study guide off word for word and called it his translation and all the members have thought for 150 years that JS received direct revelation from God to correct the errors of the Bible, but he just plagarized some other guy's ideas and even BYU came out and admitted it was true.

No. Wait...


If it was discovered that the church led by Christ himself was silencing rape victims and kicking them out of BYU, protecting pedophile clergy, and paying out millions of dollars of sex abuse settlements and covering up rape and sex abuse in the church while protecting predators and shaming vicitms.

No. Wait...

Gee. I don't know. I guess I can't think of any one thing that would bring the church to its knees if none of this other s*** did.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph
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Palerider
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Re: What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by Palerider »

Since I come from a bit of a "naturist" back ground, I've observed a phenomenon about the "take-down" of large animals in the wild.

Barring the unnatural use of heavy weapons, a big animal has to be confronted on several different fronts by a pack of tough but smaller animals that can begin to hamstring from one side, do flank tears on another and then finally after expending a lot of effort, start working on going for the throat.

It can be a long, ugly, dangerous and tedious process. Some of the smaller animals can be seriously or mortally wounded in the action.

The only entity big enough to truly manhandle the church in the past (and do it fairly quickly) was the Federal government.

And that would be a tough go because of the freedom of religion clause. But if the church could be declared a non-religion by some court case that went all the way to the Supremes, then we might see a (relatively) quick take-down of the organization.

THAT would be a sight to see... :o
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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Corsair
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Re: What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by Corsair »

This response is really insightful. Angry apostates reguarly talk about the newest terrible thing that could or should bring down the institutional church. But there is far too much devotion and money involved to easily do this. Despite everything on this list, we all know people who are unaware and unfazed by these issues. This is not an easy process.
Reuben
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Re: What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by Reuben »

Palerider wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:44 am And that would be a tough go because of the freedom of religion clause. But if the church could be declared a non-religion by some court case that went all the way to the Supremes, then we might see a (relatively) quick take-down of the organization.

THAT would be a sight to see... :o
I would be marching in support of the church if that ever happened. There are plenty of benign and helpful churches that aren't qualitatively different in the eyes of the law.

There are things the US government could do, though. One is require religions to submit a Form 990 like every other nonprofit. Another would be to launch an investigation into institutional responses to child sexual abuse, or into entanglement of church and state in Utah. Chances are the church would have to change for the better to survive, which is just as good as killing it. Maybe it could be reborn into an actual church of Jesus Christ.

A fella can dream.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.
Arcturus
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Re: What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by Arcturus »

Reuben wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:48 am
Palerider wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:44 am And that would be a tough go because of the freedom of religion clause. But if the church could be declared a non-religion by some court case that went all the way to the Supremes, then we might see a (relatively) quick take-down of the organization.

THAT would be a sight to see... :o
I would be marching in support of the church if that ever happened. There are plenty of benign and helpful churches that aren't qualitatively different in the eyes of the law.

There are things the US government could do, though. One is require religions to submit a Form 990 like every other nonprofit. Another would be to launch an investigation into institutional responses to child sexual abuse, or into entanglement of church and state in Utah. Chances are the church would have to change for the better to survive, which is just as good as killing it. Maybe it could be reborn into an actual church of Jesus Christ.

A fella can dream.
Possibly yank the church's tax-exempt status in combination with the continued hemorrhaging of active, tithe-paying members. But the church's wealth is so insane that they would still likely survive this move. Now if there was a complete mandate for 100% financial transparency of religious organizations, then maybe this could impact the TBM ranks. But it's easy to underestimate the power of a cult...
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
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Hagoth
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Re: What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by Hagoth »

I think Jesus Christ could take down the church, except that they would crucify him the minute he turned water into wine.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Reuben
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Re: What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by Reuben »

Hagoth wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:32 pm I think Jesus Christ could take down the church, except that they would crucify him the minute he turned water into wine.
He could tell them it's grape juice.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.
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Spicy McHaggis
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Re: What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by Spicy McHaggis »

Unquestioning belief does a number on the mind of the believer: Facts don't matter.

That is a great list and all of that should matter to every mormon. But it doesn't.
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Palerider
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Re: What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by Palerider »

Hagoth wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:32 pm I think Jesus Christ could take down the church, except that they would crucify him the minute he turned water into wine.
Well it's for sure no one in leadership would recognize him....

That is until they were all struck dumb and he said, "Try speaking for me now..."
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington
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deacon blues
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Re: What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by deacon blues »

The "Rapture" might take down/up the church.... then again it might not. ;)
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.
Corsair
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Re: What would bring the Church to its knees? Brilliant Reddit post

Post by Corsair »

deacon blues wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:15 am The "Rapture" might take down/up the church.... then again it might not. ;)
There's an old joke that can be arranged to elevate or skewer Mormons (or any other faith):
Pro-Mormon Joke wrote:"Good news and bad news, President Nelson. The Second Coming has occurred and Jesus is on the phone wanting to speak to you!"

"That sounds good! What's the bad news?"

"Jesus is calling from Rome, Italy"
The opposite version would, of course, feature Pope Francis getting the phone call from Salt Lake City. I simply have the feeling that apologetics will continue even after any Second Coming occurs. Jesus coming down and not doing an LDS temple tour will not bring the church to its' collective knees. It's just one more reason to remain faithful to the prophet, keep attending the temple, spread the gospel, and probably pay tithing.

Honestly, we are all better served by coming to some kind of peace and indifference with the silliness coming out of Salt Lake City.
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