Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
Love these. Feel free to add if you know of others. Not sure how the current brethren feel about these ideas though, considering that if an individual receives an answer to prayer that is inconsistent with what the brethren say, then the receipt wasn't from God...
I admire men and women who have developed the questing spirit, who are unafraid of new ideas as stepping stones to progress. We should, of course, respect the opinions of others, but we should also be unafraid to dissent - if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth emerges triumphant... Revelation may come in the laboratory, out of the test tube, out of the thinking mind and the inquiring soul, out of search and research and prayer and inspiration. We must be unafraid to contend for what we are thinking and to combat error with truth in this divided and imperiled world, and we must do it with the unfaltering faith that God is still in his heaven even though not all is well with the world. We should be dauntless in our pursuit of truth and resist all demands for unthinking conformity. No one would have us become mere tape recorders of other people's thoughts.
- Hugh B. Brown
What a pity it would be if we were lead by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are lead by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purpose of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders did they know for themselves by the revelations of Jesus that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves whether their leaders are walking in the path the lord dictates or not. This has been my exhortation continually.
- Brigham Young
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin
I am amazed to find, when all is said and done, that the LDS church is about power, NOT truth. Questioning is good ONLY as long as it supports and sustains the current leadership's position.
Isn't that just astonishing!? My whole life I believed a lie!
...Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves whether their leaders are walking in the path the lord dictates or not. This has been my exhortation continually.
- Brigham Young
Arcturus wrote: ↑Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:01 am
Love these. Feel free to add if you know of others. Not sure how the current brethren feel about these ideas though, considering that if an individual receives an answer to prayer that is inconsistent with what the brethren say, then the receipt wasn't from God...
I admire men and women who have developed the questing spirit, who are unafraid of new ideas as stepping stones to progress. We should, of course, respect the opinions of others, but we should also be unafraid to dissent - if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth emerges triumphant... Revelation may come in the laboratory, out of the test tube, out of the thinking mind and the inquiring soul, out of search and research and prayer and inspiration. We must be unafraid to contend for what we are thinking and to combat error with truth in this divided and imperiled world, and we must do it with the unfaltering faith that God is still in his heaven even though not all is well with the world. We should be dauntless in our pursuit of truth and resist all demands for unthinking conformity. No one would have us become mere tape recorders of other people's thoughts.
- Hugh B. Brown
What a pity it would be if we were lead by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are lead by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purpose of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders did they know for themselves by the revelations of Jesus that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves whether their leaders are walking in the path the lord dictates or not. This has been my exhortation continually.
- Brigham Young
These quotes are by men who thought they had truth and were confident that research would back them. They were not suspecting that they believed a lie as do today’s leaders. Today’s leaders KNOW that unadorned history doesn’t make the church look good, so they say things like some truths are more useful than others, and discourage praying and getting an answer straight from God.
Once when I struggled with doubt, a bishop reassured me that most people have some issues they put up on the shelf to ask God when they meet him face to face. I asked him if he did and he said yes. I asked him what his doubts were, and he would not talk about it. So, I knew, that his confidence in what he does believe was shallow and he knows that if you REALLY face your doubts, you don’t like the truth.
Back when science was proving that tobacco was harmful, you should have heard the confidence of my teachers that science would prove the same thing for coffee and tea. Then science came out and said green tea is really good for people. Suddenly, people were hedging what they said about the WoW. They were no longer sure and afraid they believed a lie.
Christopher Hitchens wrote:Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.
This is the Hitchens quote that comes to mind when hearing that LDS leaders once had full confidence in their beliefs and now are reduced to "doubt your doubts." There are increasingly many LDS leaders and thinkers that are approaching questions with ever greater humility, yet unable to give much credence to former believers who cannot stomach the passive aggressive predations of LDS culture, history, and doctrine. We are told that questions and even humble doubts are permitted within the LDS gospel. But any conclusion that finds answers outside of your local LDS ward is viewed with thinly veiled antipathy.
We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them — even if they knew it was wrong. But such obedience as this is worse than folly to us. It is slavery in the extreme. The man who would thus willingly degrade himself should not claim a rank among intelligent beings until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise this idea.
From the Millennial Star, Commonly attributed to Joseph Smith.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams
Just This Guy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:34 am
Sam Young Used this
We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them — even if they knew it was wrong. But such obedience as this is worse than folly to us. It is slavery in the extreme. The man who would thus willingly degrade himself should not claim a rank among intelligent beings until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise this idea.
From the Millennial Star, Commonly attributed to Joseph Smith.
This is VERY interesting. The general idea, implicitly held and in harmony with the other dribble from Q15 members, is that if you disagree with anything said by your leaders, it can ONLY be from the devil. Because, these sanctimoniously pios "Men of God" would never lead you astray.
