Why youth interviews can stop

[blazerb]

I have a bad habit of looking at TBM arguments. I almost posted this story on a TBM blog discussing the need for bishop's interviews with youth. I realized it was pointless, but I'd like to put the story out there.

For years I rode the school bus sitting next to a boy I'll call Robert. I didn't know Robert was a member of the LDS church for a long time. He told me stories of his weekends often. Some of his sexual exploits may have been exaggerated, but I don't doubt that something happened. He certainly did not keep the WoW. His senior year, he told me that his bishop wanted him to be ordained an elder. I'm not sure what questions the bishop and SP asked. I knew he wasn't "worthy." He even told me in detail what he thought of the priesthood. As a TBM teenager, I was scandalized. This person did not care about the priesthood and almost certainly lied about his past. It wasn't that he cared about getting the priesthood. He cared about getting in trouble with his parents. When Robert's name was presented at a stake priesthood meeting, I didn't sustain him, but I didn't oppose him either. What are you supposed to do? That, I realize now, just does not matter.

What does matter is that interviews don't identify the "unworthy." They identify the honest kids and the ones with scrupulosity issues. They cause guilt and break down walls that should exist in order to establish the authority of the leaders. They leave kids without needed protections against predators and in some cases put them directly in the predator's hands. I want them to stop.

[slavereeno]

Agreed, but this line stood out to me too...

When Robert's name was presented at a stake priesthood meeting, I didn't sustain him, but I didn't oppose him either. What are you supposed to do?

No you can't vote opposed! Your leaders approved him and you can't go against the leaders!

[deacon blues]

I’m reminded of a story I that I can’t completely verify, but knowing what I do know, it was probably true. A member of our priest’s quorum was the bishop’s son and had a well deserved reputation for drinking, using drugs, etc. Our priests advisor went to talk to the bishop about it. He was thrown out of the bishop’s office.

It is well known that there are people who lie and/or previcate in bishpp’s interviews, and they go to temples, get called to leadership positions, go on missions, etc.

[Archimedes]

There is only one question that needs to be asked in worthiness interviews:

1. Do you ever watch movies about gladiators?

[Not Buying It]

Hundreds of “unworthy” people enter the Holy Temple every single day after lying in “worthiness” interviews. Interviews in the Church don’t keep “unworthy” people from going to the temple, getting callings, going on missions, or anything else. They have never done that.

They do give the Church a tremendous amount of control, so while they are a failure as a screening mechanism they are marvelous as a method of control.

I have some serious reservations about interviewing young people for “worthiness” anyway. How is a young person who fails an interview supposed to feel? Unworthy? Worthless? It’s a toxic practice, and Sam Young shouldn’t have to starve himself to draw attention to the fact that it’s a toxic practice.

[alas]

For the kids that have shame issues, interviews and very shaming. For the kids with scrupluosity issues, the interviews make them more and more neurotic. For kids who have experienced abuse, the interviews are abusive. For normal kids, the interview teaches them to lie.

I can’t think of any body these interviews help.

They only help the church by keeping the shamed kids shamed, the abused kids abused, the OCD kids being scrupulous, and everyone feeling guilty. keeping people feeling guilty is best for keeping people feeling like they NEED the church to help them repent. That is exactly what the church wants. A steady level of guilt, even if the guilt is extremely damaging to those with shame, abuse, and OCD.

On second thought, the part about teaching people to lie comes in real handy when they become GAs.

[achilles]

How did it become this way? When did it become this way? Was it intentionally engineered to be like this? Did it just evolve mindlessly toward this kind of system? Do human systems inevitably trend toward this kind of abusive control? Is this anybody's fault? Who do we blame? Who can really change this?

I wonder about these things. Because I know that even though I felt a lot of guilt and shame in these interviews, I also felt a lot of warmth and caring. I felt like these men cared about me and wanted to help me. However, the system of guilt really messed with my mind until I finally asked myself the crucial question "Are you really such a bad person?" When the answer came back "No", it broke the spell.

[Reuben]

How did it become this way? When did it become this way? Was it intentionally engineered to be like this? Did it just evolve mindlessly toward this kind of system? Do human systems inevitably trend toward this kind of abusive control? Is this anybody's fault? Who do we blame? Who can really change this?

I've been wondering the same things for a while now.

I came across what I think is a piece of the puzzle recently, in a paper reporting on a therapy for people with high self-criticism and high sensitivity to shame. These traits are often a result of childhood trauma inflicted by a parent who wouldn't give them a break. To avoid future trauma, they develop a harsh inner critic, and use shame to punish themselves for even minor infractions. They therefore have a difficult time exercising self-compassion. Some are even afraid to do it, because they feel like if they did, they might let themselves mess up and get punished.

I don't know about the god you grew up with, but the one Mormonism taught me to believe in was obsessive-compulsive, narcissistic and abusive. I think it's pretty clear that most church leaders believe in this god, too. So did their predecessors, but I couldn't say how far back it goes. I think the formal judgment and shaming they've instituted is partly an attempt to protect themselves and those in their stewardships from their god's much worse abuses and rejection.

They would never put it in those terms, though, because they've adopted its warped worldview as a matter of self-protection, just like the "good" kids in any other family with an abusive parent.

I think this is changing, albeit very slowly, like everything else in the church.