Saints! A history lesson.

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græy
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Saints! A history lesson.

Post by græy »

So, I recently had the "opportunity" to teach a class and give an introduction to the new church history books Saints: The Story of the Church of Jesus Christ in the Latter Days.

It was in interesting and frustrating lesson to prepare and teach. Having recently finished Rough Stone Rolling for the second time, there is obviously a lot of data they simply cannot fit into this "comprehensive" history series, which certainly contributed to the feeling of frustration. There is so much left out that you never really get the whole story. But here are a few of the points that really stood out to me.

Chapter 1: Ask In Faith
  • This chapter sets up the history that got the Smith family to Palmyra and created the local religious revival, namely the Tambora eruption in 1815.

    This monstrous explosion directly caused the deaths of somewhere around 10,000 people through pyroclastic flows, and tsunami. It dropped global temperatures enough to create the 1816 year without a summer and caused worldwide famine and starvation resulting in the deaths of another 60,000 people.

    Having had his money stolen from him during his recent ginseng venture, Joseph Smith Sr. and family were already on the edge of poverty and the volcanic eruption in Indonesia pushed them over the edge by causing late/early freezes which destroyed crops across the country. In desperation, JS Sr. abandoned his farm and moved to Palmyra hoping for a better conditions.

    70,000 people had to die, to get the Smiths into the city near the hill Cumorah. Couldn't God have just sent an angel? Or a dream? JS Sr. was good at having dreams. It seems like that could have saved a lot of trouble and suffering.

    Around the world religious leaders wondered why God or the Gods were angry with humanity. In the United States this was manifested as a religious revival which gained particular strength in the burned-over district.
  • Joseph had surgery on his leg. The book mentions that the doctors wanted him to drink some brandy to manage the pain and that Joseph refused. It does not clarify that this was not a premonition of the WoW, but more likely because JS Sr. was a drunk and JS Jr. didn't want to be like him.
  • The chapter talks about both JS Sr. and Lucy's views on religion and how they both had spent years searching for and unable to find God's one true church. The unspoken (hidden) implication is that they likely taught that same idea to their children long be JS Jr. cared cared about religion at all. Which explains why Joseph already knew the answer to that question before the first vision in 1820 and supports the 1832 version of the first vision.
Chapter 3: Plates of Gold - I hated this chapter
  • Like many people in the area, including his father, Joseph believed that God could reveal knowledge through objects like rods and stones, as He had done with Moses, Aaron, and others in the Bible. One day, while Joseph was helping a neighbor dig a well, he came across a small stone buried deep in the earth.
    And then he stole it from William Chase.
    Aware that people sometimes used special stones to search for lost objects or hidden treasure, Joseph wondered if he had found such a stone. Looking into it, he saw things invisible to the natural eye.
    Like buried treasure, and Spaniards with slit throats. He also engaged in seances and offered animal sacrifices to appease the spirits and obtain the treasure they were guarding. In the coming years he hired himself out to others offering to find treasure on their properties. He was paid for these services but NEVER successfully found any treasure! Could he not find them because the guardian spirits were too powerful for his "righteous" magic? Or was he simply lying about all of it?
  • Moroni visits. Nothing special here, standard church-endorsed mythology.
  • On his way to get the plates (1st attempt):
    Joseph thought about the plates as he walked. Even though he knew they were sacred, it was hard for him to resist wondering how much they were worth. He had heard tales of hidden treasures protected by guardian spirits, but Moroni and the plates he described were different from these stories.
    No. They weren't. They were EXACTLY the same. Guardian spirit, buried treasure, can't get it until we do some specific ritual or self-purification.

    Also, its a bit disingenuous to claim he had only heard of these stories when he was the one telling the stories! He made them up! He was the author of the stories! Just like he was making up the story of Nephi visiting his room! ...Sorry, Moroni.
  • Moroni: Bring Alvin next year

    (two months later) Alvin dies.

    (ten months later) Moroni (probably): Haha, yeah we knew he was going to die. That was extra punishment for thinking you could sell the plates!
Chapter 5: All Is Lost
  • Joseph and Emma have to leave Palmyra because everyone wants to see/steal the plates, but can't find them.
  • Isaac Hale doesn't believe him either and forbids translation work in his house.
  • Martin Harris takes a copy of some "Caractors" to the scholars for verification.
    • Charles Anthon: A professor of Greek and Latin, he could never have read the characters in the first place, let alone issued a certificate stating that the translation was accurate. Even if he did give Martin a certificate, it was a lie. More likely though, as Anthon himself said, he never gave them a certificate and instead warned Martin to avoid the fraud.
    • "I cannot read a sealed book." LOL, just cut the stupid seal off. Surely your 19th century tools could beat a 5th century piece of metal. If the plates were even real. In reality, Anthon probably never said anything like this.
    • Samuel Mitchill: In a twist that departs from the tried and true narrative, the book tells how Martin went to get a second opinion from a politician/physician/naturalist who taught natural history at Columbia College. Here is the best part:
      He received Martin politely, listened to his story, and looked at the characters and translation. He could not make sense of them, but he said they reminded him of Egyptian hieroglyphics and were the writings of an extinct nation.
      "I can't read these, and they make no sense to me at all, but they look kind of like the picture of hieroglyphics I saw on reddit a few days ago, so they're obviously real and from a now extinct civilization." -Samuel Mitchill (according to Martin Harris)
At the actual lesson, I taught my parts, mentioning the seer stone and how he used it in a hat. Our extremely TBM/orthodox former-EQP was in attendance and had not heard about the seer-stone, he thought I was talking about the "interpreters." One person asked why we don't use seer stones today. "Good question sir. If they worked then, why can't we use them today?" Let's ask Elder McConkie.
In imitation of the true order of heaven whereby seers receive revelations from God through a Urim and Thummim, the devil gives his own revelations to some of his followers through peep stones, or crystal balls.
And there you have it. Only the spawn of Satan use seer stones. Or... wait a second, that can't be right.

Other people insisted on just making stuff up. One quote, "... imagine JS Jr. running through the woods, carrying the plates which weighed, what, 20-25lbs?" Well, if they were brass, maybe double or triple that, if real gold, you're off by an order of magnitude. The rest of the "insights" were straight out of the PoGP version of events, including the part where Joseph's entire family and whole community knew about the first vision right after it happened, but no one wrote it down, or told anyone else, ever, whether they believed him or not.

All-in-all, I'm glad its over.

PS - There is probably just as much to say about chapters 2,4,6. But this is what stood out to me.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack
Corsair
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Re: Saints! A history lesson.

Post by Corsair »

This sounds painful. I await this book being given as a birthday gift to disappointed LDS children everywhere. Perhaps it will be better received than a copy of "Preach My Gospel" or "For the Strength of Youth. Was there anything that might be an improvement over the hagiography that usually is presented as the history of the LDS church? Is plural marriage ever mentioned? Is Joseph Smith listed as the translator of the Book of Mormon? Is the Book of Morm still considered a literal history?
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græy
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Re: Saints! A history lesson.

Post by græy »

Corsair wrote: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:32 am Was there anything that might be an improvement over the hagiography that usually is presented as the history of the LDS church? Is plural marriage ever mentioned? Is Joseph Smith listed as the translator of the Book of Mormon? Is the Book of Morm still considered a literal history?
Only the first 6 chapters of the first book are available as of right now, which only takes us through to Oliver Cowdery stepping in to act as scribe.

This history mentions the seer stone, and even describes how he put it into a hat to block light and then supposedly saw the words shining from the stone. But it is careful to avoid mentioning or hinting at the implications of such a story (queue loose/tight translation model arguments). There is a note that Lucy Harris tried to sue him for fraud when neither Martin nor herself could find any evidence of the gold plates, despite Martin having spent months working in his home. It is also a bit more clear about Isaac's disapproval of JS Jr.

For the most part though, (aside from mentioning the seer stone) I'd say this still follows the tried and true narrative we've all been taught with extremely brief mentions and positive spins put on things that aren't completely flattering.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack
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slavereeno
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Re: Saints! A history lesson.

Post by slavereeno »

DW and I went through some of this together a while back. It seems to add a lot of detailed anecdotes while offering only glancing blows off real issues.

Nice write up, thanks;
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Culper Jr.
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Re: Saints! A history lesson.

Post by Culper Jr. »

I love it on LDS.org: "Saints Volume 1 to provide honest look at church history". So they are admitting that the "look" at church history we have had before now has not been honest? I read through it; what really struck me was the dumbed down 3rd grade level writing. It felt like I was reading a children's book. Also, one thing that drives me insane about the church's presentation of its history is how they craft every word and sentence to sort of tell the truth but imply something else is happening without specifically denying the thing they don't want you to know about. So the casual reader that is unfamiliar with these issues thinks one thing, and the person who is familiar with the issue can't say that the church said something specifically false. It's still a lie.
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Rob4Hope
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Re: Saints! A history lesson.

Post by Rob4Hope »

Culper Jr. wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:55 am ... is how they craft every word and sentence to sort of tell the truth but imply something else is happening without specifically denying the thing they don't want you to know about. So the casual reader that is unfamiliar with these issues thinks one thing, and the person who is familiar with the issue can't say that the church said something specifically false. It's still a lie.
This method of systemic lying is woven into the fabric of the story (I mean history) tellers. It blows my mind how this church teaches that liars will go to hell, but they justify themselves.
Reuben
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Re: Saints! A history lesson.

Post by Reuben »

Culper Jr. wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:55 am I love it on LDS.org: "Saints Volume 1 to provide honest look at church history". So they are admitting that the "look" at church history we have had before now has not been honest? I read through it; what really struck me was the dumbed down 3rd grade level writing. It felt like I was reading a children's book. Also, one thing that drives me insane about the church's presentation of its history is how they craft every word and sentence to sort of tell the truth but imply something else is happening without specifically denying the thing they don't want you to know about. So the casual reader that is unfamiliar with these issues thinks one thing, and the person who is familiar with the issue can't say that the church said something specifically false. It's still a lie.
Do you mean paltering or something even sneakier?
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.
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