Sam Young: Hunger Strike Begins Tomorrow

[trophywife26.2]

http://kutv.com/news/local/protect-lds- ... ike-sunday

Every time I read this and when I read the comments on the article through KUTV on facebook I just well up with tears and emotion, the comments are so cruel and 'unchristlike'. I will be watching closely to what is happening and 'praying' for Sam every day.

What do we think NOM? What have you heard? How can we best support this brother?

[crossmyheart]

It is truly admirable that he is willing to take up this cause so ferociously. Once I saw the dark underbelly of the church it wasn't long before I simply walked away. That he is willing to keep up the fight deserves our support.

Just my opinion, but I believe there are so many more NOM's or nuanced TBM's who sit back and reap the benefits of change that many of the forefront policy-resistors bring to public attention. Speaking for myself, I am too afraid of the persecution and shunning. I get enough from my family. Maybe this is just my Mormon guilt showing, but I am also torn between fear and apathy and probably just plain burn out.

Debating whether to delete this response. Because I really don't have an answer to your question.

[trophywife26.2]

Don't worry, don't delete your comment. I am very burned out too. I don't have a lot of energy to try to change the church. I am resigned now, but I do have a little energy stored if there were a way I could show love and support to Sam for what he has done. Donating money is always one way, but I wonder if that's the best way for him to feel like we care about what he is doing right now or not. I guess we'll see what the actions are planned if he calls for people to come out.

[wtfluff]

I haven't seen an actual post from Sam saying anything about a hunger strike.

I guess I'm skeptical....

[trophywife26.2]

I have noticed that as well. I have to wonder who would be telling KUTV to report it? What is their source, if not Sam? I read a comment somewhere that maybe they released the information early. Which is one possibility, but there are people who might try to leak misinformation to hurt the movement.

[wtfluff]

I guess I'm skeptical...

Well, Sam just recently posted on FaceNeck that he is indeed doing a hunger strike. My skepticism has been squashed with evidence.

Now I'm skeptical that anyone at Church Headquarters will care...

[Reuben]

This might have a chance of working.

I've been doing a bit of reading about hunger strikes. Findings:

• They're more likely to change public attitudes than leaders' attitudes
• They're a way for powerless, desperate people to effect change
• They only work when the public perceives that there are no other avenues for change
• None of the above necessarily applies to famous strikers such as Ghandi

And I didn't see this called out explicitly anywhere, but it seems to me that the strikers have to be seen as human.

IMO, for Sam's hunger strike to change anything, enough active members have to know about it and feel some empathy for the strikers.

[Reuben]

http://kutv.com/news/local/protect-lds- ... ike-sunday

Every time I read this and when I read the comments on the article through KUTV on facebook I just well up with tears and emotion, the comments are so cruel and 'unchristlike'.

You got me curious, so I found the story on the KUTV Facebook page and started reading comments. Here's what I found posted by the true believers among the first couple hundred comments:

• A few passive-aggressive attacks on Sam
• An assertion that non-members and disaffected members have no skin in the game (corrected by replies)
• A couple of "how would kids report abuse safely?" (followed by decent discussion)
• A lot of "it didn't happen to me" (corrected by replies)
• A lot of "the policy already changed so what more does he want?" (less often corrected by replies)

That last one is hard to correct because it requires digging into details. The people who think no further response is necessary don't want details, they want to feel good about their church. The church's earlier response to Sam therefore functions kind of like the essays: it allows members to feel that they could know the details and form a real defense if they wanted to, but fear keeps them from wanting to. I think most believing members who are aware of the strike will retreat to this position, confident that it's unassailable because they choose ignorance.

The most liked replies are critical of the church, but that's probably more due to Internet demographics than real-life sentiment.

[Not Buying It]

Sam is fearless. He deserves a lot of credit, he sees something very wrong and publicly risks everything to change it. There’s an incredible contrast between his bravery and the cowardice of the LDS Church leadership who refuses to admit there’s a problem and refuses to talk to Sam or anybody about it.

That said, they’ll let him starve to death before they will lose face by giving in to him.

[trophywife26.2]

http://kutv.com/news/local/protect-lds- ... ike-sunday

Every time I read this and when I read the comments on the article through KUTV on facebook I just well up with tears and emotion, the comments are so cruel and 'unchristlike'.

You got me curious, so I found the story on the KUTV Facebook page and started reading comments. Here's what I found posted by the true believers among the first couple hundred comments:

• A few passive-aggressive attacks on Sam
• An assertion that non-members and disaffected members have no skin in the game (corrected by replies)
• A couple of "how would kids report abuse safely?" (followed by decent discussion)
• A lot of "it didn't happen to me" (corrected by replies)
• A lot of "the policy already changed so what more does he want?" (less often corrected by replies)

That last one is hard to correct because it requires digging into details. The people who think no further response is necessary don't want details, they want to feel good about their church. The church's earlier response to Sam therefore functions kind of like the essays: it allows members to feel that they could know the details and form a real defense if they wanted to, but fear keeps them from wanting to. I think most believing members who are aware of the strike will retreat to this position, confident that it's unassailable because they choose ignorance.

The most liked replies are critical of the church, but that's probably more due to Internet demographics than real-life sentiment.

The thing that truly upset me the most was a gif from Rocky (more than once) saying, "If he dies, he dies." Clearly they mean it as a joke, but it's not a joke. Not to Sam, not to Sam's children and grandchildren and not to me.

[Red Ryder]

I've been spiritually starving in the church for a very long time. Nobody seems to care about my spiritual starvation. Why will they care about Sam's physical starvation?

[achilles]

Look--I think this looks bad for the Church in multiples ways.

1-It highlights bad policy
2-It shows (potentially) that the Q12 might be willing to let him starve to death to save their pride
3-If they excommunicate him, it looks really bad

If Sam's able to keep this up in a humble way, I think good things might result. We'll see.

If it goes on for a while and news of it goes national, the Church will act.

[achilles]

A commenter asked what else Sam could possibly want. I'd like to see the following changes:

1-Mandatory county/state/federal background checks for anybody working with youth (the church can get a bulk discount on this, and these things save people from being abused)

2-An end to invasive sexual questioning of youth

3-A real change in procedure on abuse reporting. No more first phone call to Kirton and McConkie. Require phone calls to authorities and counselling first.

I could see the Church potentially moving toward a policy of only asking "do you obey the law of chastity?" Period. No more. Teach that it is the parent's responsibility to teach what that means, and leave it at that. No more "Johnny, do you touch yourself?" BS...

[deacon blues]

This is entirely reasonable, Achilles. The school districts in Utah already do #1, why not the church. #2 is one the Church is still vague about. Invasive questioning is so often a part of grooming. I'm a little curious how #3 might conflict with the "minister privilege" of not revealing a confession. But it seems more should be done to protect victims. I wish Sam Young the best, and hope for a real discussion with general authorities.

[Hagoth]

One problem is that most TBMs don't know who Sam Young is and even the ones who are aware of his march don't realize this is that same guy. I haven't heard many comments about this from TBMs but the general tone of those I have heard is that this guy is some kind of random nutcase with an imaginary ax to grind.

I really, really, really hope The Brethren sit up and take notice of this man who really cares about the church with the degree of fervency they can only dream of seeing in the more obedient members. Maybe they should have just welcomed him into the COB at the end of the march and had an honest face-to-face conversation with him, rather than responding with "don't touch the building."

[trophywife26.2]

Sam has specifically stated his demands.

1. No one on one interviews.
2. No sexually explicit questions. Ever.

10 words. When the brethren make this policy, the hunger strike will end.

He will also end the hunger strike when 10 bishops come forward and commit to:

1. No one on one interviews.
2. No sexually explicit questions. Ever.

The last condition he will end the hunger strike is if his wife asks him to. And he says that she has agreed to at least 21 days.

This is all via Mormon Stories facebook live video of Sam.

[Corsair]

It's fun watching Mike Norton cause trouble for the LDS church. I can happily sit back and eat popcorn while he does it. Sam Young is not going to be fun to watch. For certain it will be interesting, but this is much high stakes than anything I have seen in a long time. This is an iron resolve calling out church leaders to participate in a "Come to Jesus" event. I can only imagine the debates among senior leadership on this event. The next three weeks should be fascinating.

[wtfluff]

Sam has specifically stated his demands.

1. No one on one interviews.
2. No sexually explicit questions. Ever.

10 words. When the brethren make this policy, the hunger strike will end.

He will also end the hunger strike when 10 bishops come forward and commit to:

1. No one on one interviews.
2. No sexually explicit questions. Ever.

The last condition he will end the hunger strike is if his wife asks him to. And he says that she has agreed to at least 21 days.

This is all via Mormon Stories facebook live video of Sam.

There have been rumors on the inter-webs of many bishops, and even stake presidents that back Sam. I think it will be a lot easier to get bishops to commit than to get the Corporation to do anything.

I wouldn't have had an issue attempting to influence the last bishop I was actually involved with, but at this point I don't have any contact...

[trophywife26.2]

Church issues a statement: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... -sam-young

[Red Ryder]

Church issues a statement: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... -sam-young

And here it is folks...

Church leaders at every level—from Sam’s local bishop and stake president to a recent conversation with a general authority—have met with him to express love, to listen and to counsel with him. They have received and reviewed his materials and understand clearly his viewpoint.
Further meetings with him are not necessary to clarify his position on this matter.