Anyone one here know more than I do about family search? They are trying really hard to push it where I live, and my wife is learning about it in RS and she even downloaded an app. Fortunately she is pissed about it It doesn't show any real linking for her or for me. You can see our parents, and their parents, and their parents etc, but no siblings or aunts and uncles. It makes it looks like everyone who uses it has to do tons of work that others have already done before, or work that the church clearly already knows and should have submitted. Anyone know how this is supposed to work?
She is also upset because her Grandpa has been rebaptized and sealed, and he was baptized and sealed in his lifetime. She has a number of other ancestors with multiple temple records, even though she has only briefly looked through this. This has really bothered her She asks me about it and I tell her the church just wants people to go to the temple for the sake of going through the temple they don't care about getting work done for the dead, which she didn't really argue with. I told her to really research it and let me know what she finds
I know that the church just wants everyone to keep their head down and work and go to the temple to do the same name over and over, but are they really this obvious about it? I asked her point blank (she doesn't know the extent of my disbelief) if the temple was about doing work for the dead, or if it was an activity to uplift the living. She answered that it is for the living. She kinda had to answer this way since the church makes no effort to disguise it lol.
May this be the box that breaks the shelf!
Family Search is a see through sham
Re: Family Search is a see through sham
I'm no expert in Family Search, but my wife is known to be quite adept at it and is an enlightened soul that truly enjoys family history research. She would agree with you on the problems in Family Search. It drives her nuts that there are so many inconsistencies in the database. She spends a lot of time fixing those things that can be fixed, but it is truly a Sisyphean task. People have been know to record the sealings of parents and grandparents that they feel should have been in place so that they can make sure the work gets done. There are inter-family turf wars over who gets to do the proxy work for relatives and the application supports the idea of "reserving" certain names for doing ordinances. There are errors that are unlikely to get fixed unless, literally, "God himself" comes down and gets them fixed.
It's not that the church is simply creating "work" for their members. Instead, consider that there is effectively no way for the church demonstrably "fail" by putting effort into family history. At no point could the church collapse because we are doing a crummy job of genealogy and temple ordinances.
The church could stumble (and is) from being lousy at "Proclaiming the Gospel" with it's outmoded teaching style and inexperienced teenage evangelists.
The church also could stumble (and is) from being lousy at "Perfecting the Saints" with it's inability to define and defend doctrine from internet based scrutiny.
But no matter how spectacularly the church might fail at "Redeeming the Dead" through family history, there is no organic way for it to measurably falter from poorly organized genealogical records. Because you cannot annoy dead people. You can only employ devout live people.
It's not that the church is simply creating "work" for their members. Instead, consider that there is effectively no way for the church demonstrably "fail" by putting effort into family history. At no point could the church collapse because we are doing a crummy job of genealogy and temple ordinances.
The church could stumble (and is) from being lousy at "Proclaiming the Gospel" with it's outmoded teaching style and inexperienced teenage evangelists.
The church also could stumble (and is) from being lousy at "Perfecting the Saints" with it's inability to define and defend doctrine from internet based scrutiny.
But no matter how spectacularly the church might fail at "Redeeming the Dead" through family history, there is no organic way for it to measurably falter from poorly organized genealogical records. Because you cannot annoy dead people. You can only employ devout live people.
- MerrieMiss
- Posts: 580
- Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:03 pm
Re: Family Search is a see through sham
I love genealogy work. I’ve never been into the temple stuff, even as a TBM. I love the history, the people, the search, old books, photos, etc. And I’ve always considered (even as a TBM) temple work to be Mormonism’s version of ancestor worship.
That being said, I used to do a lot of family history work but I stopped about the time the new Family Search came out, so I don’t know as I can help with how it’s supposed to work. I believe that no living people are supposed be showing, so unless they are dead, none of your siblings or close relatives will show up.
There are a lot of passionate Family History LDS workers who are furious about the way temple work is/has been done. A lot of the discrepancies go back to before Family Search and there was a very poor system for validating if/when work was done. Sometimes people did not verify their names. Think back to how it must have been verifying info like that in say, the year 1950 or even 1990. You do get people who just want names to take through, so they print out names that have already been done. There are also people who say, “Grandpa was born in 1902 not 1903,” so they do the work again. This causes no end of frustration for people who are very passionate and serious about family history/temple work. I have people in my own family who did their own ordinances when alive, only to have them done numerous times by proxy for whatever reason. This is really common stuff and has been happening for a long time. The new Family Search was supposed to help keep that in check.
I don’t know that the church wants this to happen just so people have names. Maybe, could be. As I said, I do know that people who are very passionate about this stuff get really angry finding these things and take it on as a personal mission to clean up records and evangelize to the wards in fifth Sundays on the correct and true way to do temple work. Just my observations.
What I found really interesting when doing genealogy years ago, and this was when they had the system that came right before the current one, someone had entered Jesus in the system, with a wife and children. In France. Too much Da Vinci Code for someone. Or a NOM with a good sense of humor…
That being said, I used to do a lot of family history work but I stopped about the time the new Family Search came out, so I don’t know as I can help with how it’s supposed to work. I believe that no living people are supposed be showing, so unless they are dead, none of your siblings or close relatives will show up.
There are a lot of passionate Family History LDS workers who are furious about the way temple work is/has been done. A lot of the discrepancies go back to before Family Search and there was a very poor system for validating if/when work was done. Sometimes people did not verify their names. Think back to how it must have been verifying info like that in say, the year 1950 or even 1990. You do get people who just want names to take through, so they print out names that have already been done. There are also people who say, “Grandpa was born in 1902 not 1903,” so they do the work again. This causes no end of frustration for people who are very passionate and serious about family history/temple work. I have people in my own family who did their own ordinances when alive, only to have them done numerous times by proxy for whatever reason. This is really common stuff and has been happening for a long time. The new Family Search was supposed to help keep that in check.
I don’t know that the church wants this to happen just so people have names. Maybe, could be. As I said, I do know that people who are very passionate about this stuff get really angry finding these things and take it on as a personal mission to clean up records and evangelize to the wards in fifth Sundays on the correct and true way to do temple work. Just my observations.
What I found really interesting when doing genealogy years ago, and this was when they had the system that came right before the current one, someone had entered Jesus in the system, with a wife and children. In France. Too much Da Vinci Code for someone. Or a NOM with a good sense of humor…
- FoundMyOwnWay
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:34 pm
Re: Family Search is a see through sham
You bring up a very humorous point Corsair, there is literally no way nor measure for them to fail at family history work. I hadn't thought about it this way and it made me lol.
We had the idea that living people didn't show up the same as dead people, but it wasn't consistent so we weren't sure what is really supposed to show up in our views.
I wonder how many different systems the church has used, and started over with since the mid 1800s, and how long will Family Search be used until it's scrapped for the next big push. Oh well, as long as it makes my wife think a bit about what's behind the curtain I'm pretty happy with it.
We had the idea that living people didn't show up the same as dead people, but it wasn't consistent so we weren't sure what is really supposed to show up in our views.
I wonder how many different systems the church has used, and started over with since the mid 1800s, and how long will Family Search be used until it's scrapped for the next big push. Oh well, as long as it makes my wife think a bit about what's behind the curtain I'm pretty happy with it.
- TheRunningmom
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:12 pm
Re: Family Search is a see through sham
Yeah, people pretty much have free reign to add things whenever they want. I know there were at one time several Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene marriages recorded.
It's kind of funny...my inlaws are huge into family history and indexing. They even participated in that event a couple of years ago where they were trying to hit a certain number over a week or weekend or something. Anyway, they aren't listed as DH's parents. He has no family listed in his tree.
Here's what the help section has to say about duplication of ordinances:
It's kind of funny...my inlaws are huge into family history and indexing. They even participated in that event a couple of years ago where they were trying to hit a certain number over a week or weekend or something. Anyway, they aren't listed as DH's parents. He has no family listed in his tree.
Here's what the help section has to say about duplication of ordinances:
I also thought this part was interesting:When you prepare to perform ordinances for a person, you should ensure that the ordinances are not complete.
President Gordon B. Hinckley said:
One of the most troublesome aspects of our temple activity is that as we get more and more temples scattered across the earth there is duplication of effort in proxy work. People in various nations simultaneously work on the same family lines and come up with the same names. They do not know that those in other areas are doing the same thing. We, therefore, have been engaged for some time in a very difficult undertaking. To avoid such duplication, the solution lies in complex computer technology (“Opening Remarks,” Ensign, Nov. 2005, pp. 5–6).
Family Tree is designed to prevent duplication of ordinances in these ways:
It contains the most recent information about temple ordinances. Information about completed ordinances is usually added to the system within 24
hours.
If the ordinances of a person are complete, the system prevents them from being performed again.
When you reserve ordinances for a person, Family Tree changes the ordinance status to reserved and posts your contact name along with a date of the reservation. If patrons check the ordinance status for the individual, they see those ordinances as reserved.
Family Tree also identifies possible duplicates. Review possible duplicates carefully to ensure they are indeed duplicates and should be merged or checked as not a match. When duplicates exist, ordinances can be complete for one individual, but not the other individual. If the merge process is not completed correctly, the ordinances can be dropped and not included on the final merged record. Please carefully review these articles for more information on merging: Merging duplicate records in Family Tree (53952), An individual is in my Temple Ordinances list, but I found a duplicate record showing ordinances completed (53593), and Checking possible duplicates even when the ordinances seem ready to do (53672).
You can find ordinances you want to perform already complete or reserved. Please honor the work of others. Do not add duplicate records into the system just so you can perform the ordinances. Avoid duplication of ordinances, however well meaning.
What is the 110 year policy, and why was it initiated?
Policy
Church policy states that you may do ordinances for your own deceased spouse, child, parent, or sibling, but please consider the wishes of other close living relatives, especially a living spouse.
For individuals born within the last 110 years, if you are related but not a spouse, child, parent, or sibling of the deceased, please obtain permission from the closest living relative before doing the ordinances. The closest living relatives are: an undivorced spouse (the spouse to whom the individual was married when he or she died), an adult child, a parent, or a brother or sister.
Acquiring permission from the closest living relative is a First Presidency temple policy that has existed for many years—long before new.familysearch.org and Family Tree. The purpose of this policy is to prevent offense to close living relatives who do not want temple work done, and to allow temple work to be done by members of the Church who knew and associated with these individuals, and who were close to them.
When temple work is done without following this policy, members who start working on their family history will be upset when they find that a parent, child, or close relative's work has been done by someone they do not know, when they wanted to complete the ordinance work themselves. It is important to be considerate of their feelings.
Acting in conflict with the wishes of the closest living relative can result in bad feelings toward you and the Church. We ask all members to abide by this policy so that the best of feelings can prevail. Give others the gift of a wonderful temple experience with their close relatives. Share the blessings of the temple.
Re: Family Search is a see through sham
Oh, the drama created and perpetuated by this website! When my calling was to be a family history specialist about 6 years ago, my mother strictly informed me not to touch our family line or I would mess it up. You see my aunt does all of the family history for our family, and we wouldn't want to make more work for her, hmmm? Thus began my glorious tradition of not fulfilling callings. There is also a non-family member who has had a hold on my great grandfather's name for years. She won't let my Dad do his work nor will she release it to be done by anyone else. Oy vey!
I don't believe we were born to be sheep in a flock
To pantomime prayers with the hands of a clock
- Paul Simon
To pantomime prayers with the hands of a clock
- Paul Simon
Re: Family Search is a see through sham
In EQ, we have a family history topic the first Sunday of each month. Some idiot named Bro Korihor in my ward made an innocent suggestion a few months ago and the spirit enlightened the EQP to refocus on family history.
Anyway, this last Sunday was yet another family history lesson. We had a guest teacher. Some old guy in our ward (I honestly dont know who he is) gave us a lecture on the finer points of the US census from years 1850 - 1940. I'm really not sure what he said, I was reading Reddit the entire time. It was excruciatingly painfully boring.
Anyway, this last Sunday was yet another family history lesson. We had a guest teacher. Some old guy in our ward (I honestly dont know who he is) gave us a lecture on the finer points of the US census from years 1850 - 1940. I'm really not sure what he said, I was reading Reddit the entire time. It was excruciatingly painfully boring.
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.
- Enoch Witty
- Posts: 297
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:14 am
Re: Family Search is a see through sham
My grandma loves genealogy. I'm fascinated by the concept as well, and six or seven years ago I signed up for a FamilySearch account. Despite being connected to my Grandma through church records, and her lifetime of work on family history, my FamilySearch account was completely empty. There's no way (that I could find) to automatically or easily transfer my Grandma's work into my account. It would all have to be painstakingly entered manually.
That was the last time I logged in to FamilySearch. It's only now that I see that by not automating much of this, the church is expecting (perhaps even wanting) people to constantly reinvent the wheel, never making significant progress because everybody is doing the same "work."
That was the last time I logged in to FamilySearch. It's only now that I see that by not automating much of this, the church is expecting (perhaps even wanting) people to constantly reinvent the wheel, never making significant progress because everybody is doing the same "work."
Re: Family Search is a see through sham
Even though I'm still alive, my data is on family search (searchable through google). I've asked for it to be removed and this is a great reminder to ask again. Family members are very enthusiastic about genealogy.
Personally, I like learning about ancestors and their stories (one of the benefits of mormonism). I just don't like having my information publicly available with a quick search.
Personally, I like learning about ancestors and their stories (one of the benefits of mormonism). I just don't like having my information publicly available with a quick search.