Elder Christofferson Has Read Sam Young's Stories of Abuse

[Not Buying It]

Hadn't seen this shared here yet:

https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/2 ... president/

Don't get between the Lord and his Prophet! Or else...or else what? The Lord and his Prophet haven't been doing much about this problem, have they? Would "changes" be coming if Sam Young hadn't shone a spotlight on the problem?

[Reuben]

I love Sam. His response to the one-sided selection of scriptures about contention was spot-on.

Don't get between the Lord and his Prophet! Or else...or else what? The Lord and his Prophet haven't been doing much about this problem, have they? Would "changes" be coming if Sam Young hadn't shone a spotlight on the problem?

I suppose the "else" has something to do with the state of Sam's soul. Here's the thing, though: Sam doesn't follow the prophet. He doesn't think he has to in order to stay on God's good side. He hasn't since his faith crisis. Instead, Sam follows Jesus.

His is a kind of Christianity I can respect.

One last thing. Would changes be coming if not for all the NOMs and exmos who signed the petition, spread the word, donated, wrote their stories, and marched? If good comes of this, it's due in large measure to so-called apostates. True believers wouldn't have been able to gain enough momentum. So much for loyalty.

[MoPag]

Then Elder Christofferson provided a little warning: Be careful. It’s not a good to place yourself between the Lord and his prophet.

Um... F@#% that!

Sam Young is more of a prophet than RMN could ever hope to be. Prophets were messengers from God to call wicked people to repentance. That's exactly what Sam Young is doing. He is the Lord's prophet. Sister Crystal Legionaries (the woman who shouted "stop protecting sexual predators" in GC) is a prophet. And she's the only prophet I've ever heard speak at GC.

[Mormorrisey]

I for one, am glad that Sam is who he is. I know reddit is all over Sam for not seeing the gaslighting or the veiled threats from his SP and the shadow-like SCMC, and I can see it too, but I'm convinced that Sam can do a lot of good from the inside and is fighting the good fight. If taking the words of Christofferson and his local leaders at face value is worth it to Sam to keep his campaign going, I salute him for it. BECAUSE IT'S WORKING. All the changes to interview protocols in the last couple of months can be directly attributed to Sam and his campaign, and even if they don't go far enough, Sam is responsible for even that little movement.

Would it be my strategy? No, but I'm more aggressive in personality and can't stand to be told to shut up and be quiet because it's hurting the "good name of the church." But as long as Sam plays along while he fights what's TRULY important, and that is to end these harmful practices towards children, I don't care HOW he does it. You keep on chuggin' along, Sam the Man.

[IT_Veteran]

I for one, am glad that Sam is who he is. I know reddit is all over Sam for not seeing the gaslighting or the veiled threats from his SP and the shadow-like SCMC, and I can see it too, but I'm convinced that Sam can do a lot of good from the inside and is fighting the good fight. If taking the words of Christofferson and his local leaders at face value is worth it to Sam to keep his campaign going, I salute him for it. BECAUSE IT'S WORKING. All the changes to interview protocols in the last couple of months can be directly attributed to Sam and his campaign, and even if they don't go far enough, Sam is responsible for even that little movement.

Would it be my strategy? No, but I'm more aggressive in personality and can't stand to be told to shut up and be quiet because it's hurting the "good name of the church." But as long as Sam plays along while he fights what's TRULY important, and that is to end these harmful practices towards children, I don't care HOW he does it. You keep on chuggin' along, Sam the Man.

I don't think Sam's under any illusions as to how leadership feels about him. He agreed to stop promoting efforts in F&T meeting, but not to stop talking about it altogether. If someone spoke up in church to criticize what he's doing, I have no doubt he'd respond lovingly and firmly. His approach has worked where others would have failed.

From his FB posts, he seems undeterred by the idea of excommunication. He wants his membership retained, but it's not a hill his cause will die on. As long as he's still attending and still on the membership records, people will continue to listen. When he's (eventually) ex'd for pointing out that the little changes the church has made aren't enough, TBM's won't listen anymore. He understands that, I think.

[Mormorrisey]

When he's (eventually) ex'd for pointing out that the little changes the church has made aren't enough, TBM's won't listen anymore. He understands that, I think.

I completely agree. That's another reason I'm glad he'll still fight to stay in - at least for now.

[RubinHighlander]

When he's (eventually) ex'd for pointing out that the little changes the church has made aren't enough, TBM's won't listen anymore. He understands that, I think.

I completely agree. That's another reason I'm glad he'll still fight to stay in - at least for now.

+1

Even though I'm out I'm glad to see there are those active that are willing to put it on the line for the truth and protection of children. If there were more like Sam in the church, perhaps common consent could make it back into the corporation. That's a fat chance, but rise or fall from COB grace, Sam is a saint in my book.

[Corsair]

The message back to Sam was that changes are coming, but no details or timeline was included. I just can't wait around for this insular organization to catch up to known, good practices. This gives no reason for Sam to back down, obviously.

[redjay]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44644130

This is huge national news coverage - one of the day's most read stories on the UK BBC news website.

A major embarrassment for the church.

Sorry if this is thread-jacking, but I thought it was relevant.

[Thoughtful]

I for one, am glad that Sam is who he is. I know reddit is all over Sam for not seeing the gaslighting or the veiled threats from his SP and the shadow-like SCMC, and I can see it too, but I'm convinced that Sam can do a lot of good from the inside and is fighting the good fight. If taking the words of Christofferson and his local leaders at face value is worth it to Sam to keep his campaign going, I salute him for it. BECAUSE IT'S WORKING. All the changes to interview protocols in the last couple of months can be directly attributed to Sam and his campaign, and even if they don't go far enough, Sam is responsible for even that little movement.

Would it be my strategy? No, but I'm more aggressive in personality and can't stand to be told to shut up and be quiet because it's hurting the "good name of the church." But as long as Sam plays along while he fights what's TRULY important, and that is to end these harmful practices towards children, I don't care HOW he does it. You keep on chuggin' along, Sam the Man.

Agreed.

The band aid/ scratch comment upset me. Clearly he's never been molested or seen the impact of child sexual abuse. It is life long trauma. This might be the death knell for the church if they do not get their crap together. "Avoiding misunderstandings" is not the issue, the issue is a culture and structure that supports, upholds, and maintains sexual predators at the expense of the vulnerable.

In addition to McKenna Denson, two other big legal issues were brought up last week against the church. The OB/GYN senior missionary who has been a serial predator since before his 19yo mission, and the girl molested by her father and reported to her bishop by the mother.

British television has picked up the outrage over masturbation and sex interviews.

The church current PR team and the Q15 aren't cognizant of how badly this will go for them ifthey don't figure it out soon.

[moksha]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44644130

This is huge national news coverage - one of the day's most read stories on the UK BBC news website.

Wow.

[Not Buying It]

There were several things about Elder Christofferson's response that bothered me. The "band aid" comment probably wasn't meant to minimize the horror of the stories that were shared, but that's how it came across. It made me question how seriously Elder Christofferson takes this problem. I object to his insinuation that Sam Young was coming between the Lord and the Prophet - the Prophet hasn't done diddly squat about this problem in decades, the suggestion that Sam was "steadying the ark" was in poor taste. The vagueness of the supposed "changes" feels more like they are putting him off than anything. On the whole, it was an unsatisfying and inadequate response.

[MoPag]

The band aid/ scratch comment upset me. Clearly he's never been molested or seen the impact of child sexual abuse. It is life long trauma.

OMGs yes!!

here is the quote from Sam's page:

Finally, he [Christopherson] wanted the stake president to share this metaphor: “If you have a scratch on your arm, you put a band-aid on it. You don’t cut your arm off.” No further explanation was given.

This just makes me sick. He just mocking the pain of all the brave people who shared their stories. Hopefully the BBC will get a hold of this quote. Just when I think church leaders couldn't possibly be more dense, soulless and unfeeling, they go and out do themselves!!

[IT_Veteran]

The vagueness of the supposed "changes" feels more like they are putting him off than anything. On the whole, it was an unsatisfying and inadequate response.

Something just occurred to me about the changes he referenced. I would be willing to bet that the clarification to policy they made two weeks ago, the very minuscule change and clarification of the questions that are asked, are those changes. If Christofferson's message to the SP happened during or shortly after the stake conference, but it's taken the SP a month to arrange the meeting with Sam, that may very well have been the change he was implying at the time.

[lostinmiddlemormonism]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... break.html


Daily mail as well.

[blazerb]

What would it even mean to get between the Lord and his prophet? How could that happen? If RMN is speaking with God, how could anyone stop him? The defensiveness indicates a lack of confidence in their position.

[IT_Veteran]

After re-reading Sam’s post I am more inclined to believe the changes that he was told are coming are the ones that were recently announced that changed... well... essentially nothing.

If they do in fact decide to make changes to the interview process, substantive changes, I imagine they’ll announce them in October. I hope they are held accountable for all the abuse and shame that continues to be heaped upon the children in the church that persists between now and whenever those substantive changes are eventually made.

[Thoughtful]

After re-reading Sam’s post I am more inclined to believe the changes that he was told are coming are the ones that were recently announced that changed... well... essentially nothing.

If they do in fact decide to make changes to the interview process, substantive changes, I imagine they’ll announce them in October. I hope they are held accountable for all the abuse and shame that continues to be heaped upon the children in the church that persists between now and whenever those substantive changes are eventually made.

They don't need real changes, only band aids.

[Hagoth]

I find this entire thing disgusting. Christofferson read all of those tragic stories and the only required reading for this meeting is to slap Sam down via scriptures about speaking out and causing contention? This is a transparent window into the thinking of these men. What the hell kind of message is that? If you see wrong being done to innocents, the advice of Jesus' representatives is to shut the hell up and stop making waves. Why not scriptures about suffering the children to come unto Christ, or the weight of a millstone around the neck of those who offend little ones Nope, just another shoot the messenger moment.

[StarbucksMom]

What would it even mean to get between the Lord and his prophet? How could that happen? If RMN is speaking with God, how could anyone stop him? The defensiveness indicates a lack of confidence in their position.

BINGO. And Russell Nelson ain't no prophet. If he, Monson, or any of these other fake spiritual CEOs were actually prophets, then THEY WOULD HAVE ALREADY OVERHAULED THE HORRENDOUS YOUTH INTERVIEW SYSTEM. There wouldn't be any need for Sam to intervene.