Being Authentic

[Bremguy]

From Advocate over in the Girls Camp thread --

As much as the church gives lip service to being authentic, we all know that it is just lip service and the culture doesn't bear it out. If you don't believe it, try bringing up something you struggle with in gospel doctrine on Sunday and see how it is received and how people treat you afterwords. The church and most churchgoers are not comfortable with being authentic, they'd rather see a nice clean surface and not dive into the condition of what lies below.

I have brought up my past drinking, drugging, and smoking in my distant past, some 29 years ago. I have gotten some funny looks. I have also mentioned I traveled to Haight Ashbury a few times in my teen years and tried some of the local culture. LOL My background is NOT the typical LDS type, no mission, convert, etc. I used to drag race, both legally and some street.

Some people will bring up that Church is a hospital for sinners and the like, but it ends up being more like an art museum, all nice and pretty. When life isn't always kind or favorable to one.

[moksha]

Some people will bring up that Church is a hospital for sinners and the like, but it ends up being more like an art museum, all nice and pretty.

Thank goodness they don't compare it to a taxidermist's display room or a hall for plaster of Paris statues.

[Corsair]

Some people will bring up that Church is a hospital for sinners and the like, but it ends up being more like an art museum, all nice and pretty.

Thank goodness they don't compare it to a taxidermist's display room or a hall for plaster of Paris statues.

I think it's more like a wax museum where the perfect, lifelike versions of people and events are preserved, but you can't touch them or examine them closely. This is particularly a problem when being authentic means examining things in detail and drawing your own conclusions. This is not appreciated in gospel doctrine class.

[moksha]

I think it's more like a wax museum where the perfect, lifelike versions of people and events are preserved, but you can't touch them or examine them closely.

Ah, I see. Sort of like Madame Tussauds of London, where the Mormon ideal is placed somewhere in between the Mr. Ed exhibit and the new offering of a wax Donald Trump. Wonder if the White House Chief of Staff, John Kelly, might be tempted to do a switcheroo for patriotic purposes?

[Reuben]

I've always loved when people have the courage to admit that they're human. I guess I never bought into the culture of shame.

You might have better luck being authentic with youth.

[Mad Jax]

Some people will bring up that Church is a hospital for sinners and the like, but it ends up being more like an art museum, all nice and pretty.

Thank goodness they don't compare it to a taxidermist's display room or a hall for plaster of Paris statues.

[Palerider]

I haven't thought this completely through yet. Kind of shooting from the hip.

I wonder if a "general" acknowledgement of the fact that EVERYONE deals with their own set of weaknesses and personal challenges isn't better than an open or what might be deemed as a public confession?

Does it lessen our authenticity as humans not to have our foibles aired for consumption by those who might not be as judicious with that knowledge as they should be? I'm wondering what the circumstances are for confiding a weakness or condition of being human? Is it public or with a trusted confidante?

Is it to prove we all have problems or is it to enlist the aid of someone who can either help us or at minimum be an empathetic or comforting listener?

Will others who hear of our weaknesses use those as excuses for justifying their own poor behaviour?

It seems like we're looking at this issue strictly from the point of view of an individual who is painfully aware of their own humanity but feels surrounded by people who seem unhumanly perfect and therefore the first individual feels "less than" or inferior. That indeed is a difficult place to be mentally.

But do we make a judgment of people who instead of throwing up a facade of perfection are actually just choosing to put their best foot forward in coming to grips with their own human flaws?

Anecdotally, when I was still TBM, I had a son who came to me when he was about 13-14 and related he was having a big problem with masturbation.

My first step was to ensure that he understood that ALL MEN have to deal with this issue. Every general authority, even Pres. Hinkley, when they were young had to deal with this issue. You're not alone. That statement alone had a huge and visible impact on his psyche. But I didn't go into a lot of specifics. Rather I just gave him some guidelines for understanding that some problems take quite awhile to overcome. And that the occasional error didn't mean he should look down on himself as a failure but just accept his own humanity and don't give up.

The generalization of the problem to all humanity made a big difference for him in understanding not only the issue but his standing and self worth in relation to all those around him. It gave him equal footing to relate on a level playing field with the rest of the world without him having to confess to the world or them to him. He was authentic and so was the rest of the world whether they were hiding their sins or learning to live with them.

ETA: You might wonder how can a person be authentic when they are hiding their "sins".

They may fool some naive people but a wise person knows that all men (and women) have problems. It's something you can take to the bank. Like death and taxes. So one can know that a "facade" is actually an authentic human foible. We're all in the same boat here whether we want to admit it or not.

Thus people who pretend are only inauthentic to themselves, not to us.

[Hagoth]

Not long ago I read a comment by a GA (can't remember who) criticizing doubters for claiming to being "so-called authentic." and expressing how he disdained that word. The message, if I remember correctly, was that you should just keep your mouth shut and continue the facade for the benefit of everyone else who isn't eager to hear about your so-called authenticity.

[Palerider]

Choosing not to publicly air ones personal laundry is one thing. To be encouraged to stifle ones doubts about dubious teachings or doctrines and to avoid open discussion....well, that's just the sign of an insecure and repressive organization.

What are they afraid of?

[wtfluff]

"The church" (and religion in general as far as I can tell) doesn't actually encourage people to be authentic, or "be themselves" in any way. Instead, they tell people: "This is who you are supposed to be", or: "This is who you are supposed to emulate."

Basically: Force yourself into the mold of the person we tell you to be, or get out.

[alas]

I haven't thought this completely through yet. Kind of shooting from the hip.

I wonder if a "general" acknowledgement of the fact that EVERYONE deals with their own set of weaknesses and personal challenges isn't better than an open or what might be deemed as a public confession?

Does it lessen our authenticity as humans not to have our foibles aired for consumption by those who might not be as judicious with that knowledge as they should be? I'm wondering what the circumstances are for confiding a weakness or condition of being human? Is it public or with a trusted confidante?

Is it to prove we all have problems or is it to enlist the aid of someone who can either help us or at minimum be an empathetic or comforting listener?

Will others who hear of our weaknesses use those as excuses for justifying their own poor behaviour?

It seems like we're looking at this issue strictly from the point of view of an individual who is painfully aware of their own humanity but feels surrounded by people who seem unhumanly perfect and therefore the first individual feels "less than" or inferior. That indeed is a difficult place to be mentally.

But do we make a judgment of people who instead of throwing up a facade of perfection are actually just choosing to put their best foot forward in coming to grips with their own human flaws?

Anecdotally, when I was still TBM, I had a son who came to me when he was about 13-14 and related he was having a big problem with masturbation.

My first step was to ensure that he understood that ALL MEN have to deal with this issue. Every general authority, even Pres. Hinkley, when they were young had to deal with this issue. You're not alone. That statement alone had a huge and visible impact on his psyche. But I didn't go into a lot of specifics. Rather I just gave him some guidelines for understanding that some problems take quite awhile to overcome. And that the occasional error didn't mean he should look down on himself as a failure but just accept his own humanity and don't give up.

The generalization of the problem to all humanity made a big difference for him in understanding not only the issue but his standing and self worth in relation to all those around him. It gave him equal footing to relate on a level playing field with the rest of the world without him having to confess to the world or them to him. He was authentic and so was the rest of the world whether they were hiding their sins or learning to live with them.

ETA: You might wonder how can a person be authentic when they are hiding their "sins".

They may fool some naive people but a wise person knows that all men (and women) have problems. It's something you can take to the bank. Like death and taxes. So one can know that a "facade" is actually an authentic human foible. We're all in the same boat here whether we want to admit it or not.

Thus people who pretend are only inauthentic to themselves, not to us.

I don’t think people here are just meaning to be authentic as sharing all our sins and weaknesses in public. It is more about being able to say in a room full of vanilla ice cream people that you really prefer chocolate. The church supposedly is neutral on politics, but just try admitting in SS that you are a Democrat. It s OK, for sister Jones to cry over her child who died, but if you have a gay child you better not mention it. My dad once refused to take the bread for sacrament. Well, it was whole wheat and he is very allergic. Well, it got back to the bishop and the bishop pulled him in and quizzed him about sin. Even AFTER he explained the allergy. We had a little boy in our ward who was badly glucose intolerant, and the family had a yelling fight about could the priests and deacons please just bless this rice cake and pass it to the little boy. So, I think the Mormon problem goes way beyond just not admitting sin and pretending to be perfect at church. There is a nasty intolerance for anything outside of the specific perfect mold. Even at times medical issues should just be hidden or you are expected take the sacrament even if it makes you sick.

Yes, there is a time and place to show weakness. Once in a graduate level social work class, we were discussing sexual deviancy and the professor said something stupid and male about rape. I don’t remember just what he said, but I do remember the class reaction when one girl said she had been raped. This was long before “me too”. Yeah dead silence and people visibly leaning away from her like she was contagious. She was known the rest of the year only as “the girl who got raped.” She made the mistake of saying something publicly that people were not prepared to deal with. So, there is common sense about when and where to share. There is such a thing as TMI.

But then there is Mormon culture with its stifling conformity. There is a happy medium out there which is healthy.

[Palerider]

I don’t think people here are just meaning to be authentic as sharing all our sins and weaknesses in public. It is more about being able to say in a room full of vanilla ice cream people that you really prefer chocolate....

Right. I think the initial post could lead one to believe it was mainly about pretending one has no sins or putting up a facade of perfection but as I read on through the thread I began to realize the "cookie cutter" member aspect was where many were coming from.

Which points up a church failing I have described on this site a number of times. That of mistaking "temporal uniformity" for "unity in the Spirit".

In reality "uniformity" is a temporal or worldly way of attempting to allay fears of disunity. Just look at military organizations. But uniformity is the antithesis of spiritual unity because it only gives the impression of unity and gives leadership a false sense of security. It's a MEASURABLE metric that is a false indicator. Which is another church problem. Measuring righteousness.

Uniformity is the exact opposite of what Christ practiced when he interacted with the sinners and the lepers. The unclean and the outcast.

Instead of asking them where their white shirts were He actually healed them and forgave those who truly sought forgiveness of sin.

Unfortunately the church has forgotten the lesson that the Sabbath was made for mankind and not mankind for the Sabbath. We are not made or created to serve the church organization. Rather, it should be there as a safe place for all variety who seek communion with Christ and God. We are created to serve our neighbor, not by assignment but out of the goodness of our hearts.

[deacon blues]

Anecdotally, when I was still TBM, I had a son who came to me when he was about 13-14 and related he was having a big problem with masturbation.

My first step was to ensure that he understood that ALL MEN have to deal with this issue. Every general authority, even Pres. Hinkley, when they were young had to deal with this issue. You're not alone. That statement alone had a huge and visible impact on his psyche. But I didn't go into a lot of specifics. Rather I just gave him some guidelines for understanding that some problems take quite awhile to overcome. And that the occasional error didn't mean he should look down on himself as a failure but just accept his own humanity and don't give up.

The generalization of the problem to all humanity made a big difference for him in understanding not only the issue but his standing and self worth in relation to all those around him. It gave him equal footing to relate on a level playing field with the rest of the world without him having to confess to the world or them to him. He was authentic and so was the rest of the world whether they were hiding their sins or learning to live with them.

ETA: You might wonder how can a person be authentic when they are hiding their "sins".

They may fool some naive people but a wise person knows that all men (and women) have problems. It's something you can take to the bank. Like death and taxes. So one can know that a "facade" is actually an authentic human foible. We're all in the same boat here whether we want to admit it or not.

Thus people who pretend are only inauthentic to themselves, not to us.

Wow Pale, I am impressed that your son would open up to you about such an issue. You must be a very understanding father. By the way, I like your new picture.

[Palerider]

Wow Pale, I am impressed that your son would open up to you about such an issue. You must be a very understanding father. By the way, I like your new picture.

Hey blues man,

To be sure I made PLENTY of mistakes with my kids. All I can say is I tried hard. Sometimes it went well, sometimes I crashed and burned.

Re: my new avatar,

I've been working this horse for about 3 years now and he's starting to do well. I decided to include it as my avatar so you guys would know I'm authentic.

[Hagoth]

I've been working this horse for about 3 years now and he's starting to do well. I decided to include it as my avatar so you guys would know I'm authentic.

So is that a horse, or is it a "horse?" Beautiful animal, whichever it is.

[Palerider]

I've been working this horse for about 3 years now and he's starting to do well. I decided to include it as my avatar so you guys would know I'm authentic.

So is that a horse, or is it a "horse?" Beautiful animal, whichever it is.

Well....if he isn't a horse, he's one hell of a tapir. King Lamoni would have loved him.

ETA: I guess we could be like the apologists and wait for the church to tell us what he is....

[Archimedes]

Re: my new avatar,

I've been working this horse for about 3 years now and he's starting to do well. I decided to include it as my avatar so you guys would know I'm authentic.

Good to know this ain't your first rodeo, cowboy.

PS the hat looks very authentic as well.

[Advocate]

I have brought up my past drinking, drugging, and smoking in my distant past, some 29 years ago. I have gotten some funny looks. I have also mentioned I traveled to Haight Ashbury a few times in my teen years and tried some of the local culture. LOL My background is NOT the typical LDS type, no mission, convert, etc. I used to drag race, both legally and some street.

Some people will bring up that Church is a hospital for sinners and the like, but it ends up being more like an art museum, all nice and pretty. When life isn't always kind or favorable to one.

Thanks for your post Bremguy. I hadn't actually thought about it in this context when I made my earlier post (I was thinking more about disagreements in doctrine and belief), but your spin on it gives me something to think about.

Confessing our sins/weaknesses is yet another area of the church that is weird. On the one hand we have D&C 59:12 ("on this, the Lord's day, thou shalt...confess thy sins unto thy brethren"), on the other hand we are told (during my days as a missionary the missionary guidebook specifically said this) that we shouldn't share our sins (current or past) with others as it is not helpful. For most of us it isn't a surprise that the church yet again doesn't follow its own scriptures.

I believe the instruction not to share past sin increases guilt for many, especially those who are not mature in their faith (church leaders would probably think this is a good thing), at the expense of getting support and help for the sinner.

When I was in high school the young mens president told me about a time right before his mission. Apparently he had smoked marijuana many times but had repented of it and was preparing to leave to the MTC. Not long before he left he found a marijuana pipe (not sure if it was his or a siblings) and he knew that if he heated it and sucked on it he would get some residual marijuana that was left in it. He said he was very tempted to do this. His response was to pray to ask for help in overcoming the temptation. His story has stuck with me because it showed his true self, and is a good example of the power of prayer.

I suppose when it comes to sharing sins the Lord's admonition to not "cast your pearls before swine" comes to mind. The knowledge and strength each of us has obtained in overcoming our sins are pearls. We shouldn't share those personal experiences with just anybody, but I definitely think there are times when we should share. Looks like this is yet another area where I disagree with the Brethren.

Despite my doubts about the mormon church, I still believe it is good to mourn with those who mourn and comfort those in need of comfort. I'm going to make a point to share my own weaknesses (past or present) with those that are struggling, with the hope that it will provide some comfort and help to them.

[Advocate]

Not long ago I read a comment by a GA (can't remember who) criticizing doubters for claiming to being "so-called authentic." and expressing how he disdained that word. The message, if I remember correctly, was that you should just keep your mouth shut and continue the facade for the benefit of everyone else who isn't eager to hear about your so-called authenticity.

GA's are scared about people being authentic so they talk down on it, even when their comments don't make sense. Check out this comment from Cook:

I also want to leave you with one additional thought on this subject. We hear a lot about being authentic in social media. Being sincerely Christlike is an even more important goal than being authentic. Let me say this once again: Being sincerely Christlike is an even more important goal than being authentic.

available at https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ ... 6?lang=eng

His comment doesn't make sense to me. Was Christ not authentic? Do mormons believe that Chris was inauthentic? In my mind, if I am being Christlike then I am being authentic.

His speech was to the youth regarding social media, but I think he leads them down a bad path. One issue I have with social media is that people are not authentic on it (e.g. making things sound better than they are) and it is easy to compare ourselves to what we see on social media which can make people think they are not as good as others. I think Cook would have done better to encourage youth to be Christlike, which includes being authentic on social media. Of course, he would never do that because that could lead to youth actually sharing their doubts rather than pretending like they are super-spiritual.

[moksha]

I think most Church leaders would agree that it was allowable to be authentic, just as long as you obeyed Church leaders and doctrine and kept those authentic thoughts and feelings to yourself. Comply, submit, and obey and you should do just fine.