The Patriarchy is strong in my family...

[Kalikala]

Ugh.

Talked to my parents tonight to let them know ahead of time that my son has left the church. We decided it would be best for them to know now before they come to visit so they can process and hopefully the anger will dissipate. It was an interesting conversation.

My parents still think I'm TBM. In our conversation my dad expressed that it was no surprise that my son left, because my husband left. And since he's their dad they will follow him and believe everything he tells them and he will drag them all out of the church.

I didn't try to explain that we are trying to make room for each child to explore and choose what they'd like to believe, because he wasn't in a mindset where he could listen. So I just let him vent.

But I felt a little put out that he thinks I have so little influence over my children.

Of course they are going to listen to their father. I hope they do. He's an amazing man.

And ultimately I have children with very strong personalities, who are critical thinkers and ask a bazillion questions. So they will believe what they want when they are older anyways. You can't control them. They'd just rebel against you.

But come on.

I knew my dad had a very male chauvinistic view of the world, so it shouldn't bug me as much as it does. But it really, really bugs me.

[alas]

Your dad will blame your husband for you leaving too. I am not sure what you can do about it. TBMs think apostasy is a contagious disease.

Any you should be pissed. Your dad bad mouthed your husband. I think if you give your dad time to cool off, then go back and explain what you said here about your children are strong critical thinkers, and that it was not your husband leading them astray and that you do not appreciate him bad mouthing your husband like he did, it will do the most to get your dad to consider that you gave your children the freedom to believe what they choose, and it wasn't caused by a failure of a father.

[Mormorrisey]

Yes. Yes it is.

I'm not a woman, but boy would I be pissed too, that the idea you have little to no influence over your own children, simply because your husband has "the priesthood" or a lack thereof. Ridiculous. You were very wise not to confront him when he was venting, I could learn something from that, but I'm with alas in that I would call him out at a later date.

You know what? I can see in my own kids the ways I've influenced them, and the ways Sis M. has done so. All of my kids shade NOMish TBM's to be sure, but more importantly, they are good people, and my titanium hardcore TBM wife has had a lot to do with that, and for that, I'm very grateful for her mothering skills. All that you wrote here about IT_veteran the good dad, I'm sure you will make sure that your father knows, and really, that's all you can do.

Good luck!

[IT_Veteran]

Part of the struggle with her dad is that he isn’t temporarily angry here. This is something he’s going to hold close and stew over.

He hates, and I can’t convey how strongly that word applies, not being in control of anything. He sincerely believes that not only should I stay in the church regardless of what I believe, but that we should be dragging our kids to church with us regardless of what they believe.

DW was dismayed when she relayed to him that DS has a hard time at church because the other YM are bullies. Not just to him, but they say really misogynistic and harmful things about other people too. FIL’s response was that her brother, who is on the autism spectrum, has dealt with that before and still does on occasion (as an adult). It was pretty upsetting for her to hear that he’s suffering through this with very little support, possibly only because he’s not allowed to see a way out of the environment.

[RubinHighlander]

In our conversation my dad expressed that it was no surprise that my son left, because my husband left. And since he's their dad they will follow him and believe everything he tells them and he will drag them all out of the church.

Wow! What a load of BS! I can tell your dad from first hand experience what a load of crap that assumption is!

My X had three different affairs over the course of seven years and I took her back each time, forgiving each time and holding the family unit together the best I could. I thought after the second one we had it figured out, we were doing all the things we were suppose to, but after her third affair she actually filed for divorce and had her attorney get her name off the church before they could convene the court. I did everything I could to keep my kids active and in the church. At first they were with me, but she quickly turned them against the church with anti-mormon information (which was actually the truth) and they left. So the power of a father over the children vs. mom...nope.

This was a heavy item on my shelf, having my kids so easy leave the church to follow their mother. All those promises of reading the BOM to your kids to keep them in it and all those prayers and fasting I did to try to keep them active...ultimately the truth prevailed over false faith. I can tell you it was a hard pill to swallow, to admit to the X who cheated and left you that she was ultimately right in terms of the LDS church. But I will say, at my youngest son's graduation party at her house, we were civil and she actually appologized to me for all the pain she put me through and said how impressed she was with my leaving the church and addmitting it was all wrong. She never rubbed it in my face and was quite emotional when she said it. I can say that getting out of the church has helped my relationship with my kids and my X, where before it was a great source of friction and cogdis.

The COB's pariarchial order dogma is nothing but a bunch of misogamy BS!

[jfro18]

So sorry you guys are going through this. I know it's inevitable, but it doesn't make it any better when it happens.

I guess everyone needs to find someone to blame, and unfortunately it's almost always going to be the in-law child, especially if they've already left or had a faith crisis.

Hopefully with some time things get better and even out - from listening to podcasts and reading stories it seems like quite a few of them end up quite fine with just some time.

Good luck!

[blazerb]

This must be awful. The thing is, truth is pretty powerful. I'm still in the closet with my family. I have no idea how long that will last. I really don't want to have to tell my dad. Good luck.

[Wonderment]

Wow! What a load of BS! I can tell your dad from first hand experience what a load of crap that assumption is!

My X had three different affairs over the course of seven years and I took her back each time, forgiving each time and holding the family unit together the best I could. I thought after the second one we had it figured out, we were doing all the things we were suppose to, but after her third affair she actually filed for divorce and had her attorney get her name off the church before they could convene the court. I did everything I could to keep my kids active and in the church. At first they were with me, but she quickly turned them against the church with anti-mormon information (which was actually the truth) and they left. So the power of a father over the children vs. mom...nope.

This was a heavy item on my shelf, having my kids so easy leave the church to follow their mother. All those promises of reading the BOM to your kids to keep them in it and all those prayers and fasting I did to try to keep them active...ultimately the truth prevailed over false faith. I can tell you it was a hard pill to swallow, to admit to the X who cheated and left you that she was ultimately right in terms of the LDS church. But I will say, at my youngest son's graduation party at her house, we were civil and she actually appologized to me for all the pain she put me through and said how impressed she was with my leaving the church and addmitting it was all wrong. She never rubbed it in my face and was quite emotional when she said it. I can say that getting out of the church has helped my relationship with my kids and my X, where before it was a great source of friction and cogdis.

I am sorry that your ex wife hurt you by behaving as she did, and I'm glad that leaving the church has helped your relationships with you ex and your kids. - Wndr

[Kalikala]

Thanks all. After having a few days to calm down I feel a little better. Still frustrated, but now my frustration is more aimed at the church and the well disguised fear based beliefs. I hope I’ll be able to find a way to talk to my dad without feeling angry. Especially since he’s coming to visit for a week in July.

[Thoughtful]

I'm so sorry. It does seem patriarchy is one issue, and general disrespect for your hubs is another -- but that's also patriarchy, father disliking son in law stereotype, isn't it?

My family is so entrenched in patriarchy they wouldn't know equality if it came up and bit their bicep.

For example, my brother is so progressive. My parents are so proud. Because the church has announced they will pull out of scouts, my brother has decided to do scouts with integrity. He enrolled his sons in the city troop, and my parents are thrilled. They will have the true BSA experience, the one the church has diluted and misunderstood!

I asked what about my nieces? Are they now enrolled in city troop BSA scouts?

*crickets*

I asked again.

No... (as if its an odd question)... but they do other things.

Such as?

Um, they go to school, YW, and play in the orchestra.

So. Do. My. Nephews.