How many actual revelations have happened since Joseph Smith (that have not been disavowed)?

[jfro18]

I was talking to my wife about how few revelations there have been since joseph smith... and I started thinking that since Brigham Young it's been almost nothing of consequence... and most of BY's doctrines have since been declared null and void (ban on blacks, Adam-God, blood atonement, etc).

Is there really anything since Joseph Smith that qualifies as revelation in any meaningful way? The end of the ban on blacks was a declaration that as history now tells us wasn't any type of revelation... end of polygamy the same... proclamation of the family was a legal document...

I mean - what's the point of having a living church when the prophets are nothing more than a glorified CEO?

[Hagoth]

There's Joseph F. Smith's revelation of the redemption of the dead, recorded in D&C 138. The vision opens with:

11 As I pondered over these things which are written, the eyes of my understanding were opened, and the Spirit of the Lord rested upon me, and I saw the hosts of the dead, both small and great.

And ends with:

60 Thus was the vision of the redemption of the dead revealed to me, and I bear record, and I know that this record is true, through the blessing of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, even so. Amen.

So the question is, what is a revelation? Who decides if something is a revelation rather than a dream, rumination or imagination?

There's also the appearance of the Founding Fathers to Wilford Woodruff, which has been thoroughly debunked: http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2013/ ... -fire.html

As has the supposed visitation of Jesus to Lorenzo Snow in the temple.

[BlackMormon]

You can now drink Coke. Age of 18 to go on a mission. Prophets that don't prophetize anything, seers that don't see anything and revelators that don't reveal anything, at least not to the membership. The world is waiting for new prophecies and you can get more of them on YouTube and Google than in the church. On the other hand, I'd rather they prophetize nothing than come up with stupid false prophecies.

[moksha]

The Simpson's TV show showed us a glimpse of the future in which Trump would be President unless we curbed our ways and shut Pandora's box. But did we listen? Ohh nooooo.

Well, next time listen to the prophecy!!!

[1smartdodog]

I recall once Gordon Hinckley alluding to the notion that they had moved some church assets around prior to the real estate bubble and subsequent market crash to avoid losses. How about dispensing some of that revelation. Of course that would be measurable thus going against the norm of vauge and non verifiable predictions.

[Hagoth]

I recall once Gordon Hinckley alluding to the notion that they had moved some church assets around prior to the real estate bubble and subsequent market crash to avoid losses. How about dispensing some of that revelation. Of course that would be measurable thus going against the norm of vauge and non verifiable predictions.

Wouldn't it be amazing if they gave some of that information before the tragic event happens (financial, meteorological, whatever), rather than just generating rumors about it afterward? Even if it's true, the lesson here is that the church cares about its own financial assets, but as far as an opportunity for the members' diligent faith in their leaders to pay off? Screw 'em, they're on their own.

[jfro18]

I'd be livid if the church received a revelation about the financial crisis and then saved their own assets while leaving the faithful out to dry.

But it proves one of the biggest points for me - this church is just masterful at retrofitting faith promoting material. Transfiguration of BY, the evolution of the priesthood restoration, the absolute gymnastics of the polygamy 'revelation,' the legal document of the proclamation to the family that is considered revelation, blacks and the priesthood, milk strippings, etc, etc.

[Corsair]

The LDS church easily has a narrative that allows it to retain everything about prophets by not have to prove anything by it.

The infamous Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet give a pass to prophets so that they can receive revelation but not have to take a firm stand on receiving it.

Sixth: The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture.

The faithful narrative continues to be that inspiration and revelation guide the LDS church in thousands of great and small ways every day. There is no need to add a dozen sections to the D&C because the doctrine is already sufficient and the further divine guidance is for details of steering the course of the institutional church.

An LDS believer can simply assume that general conference has the mind and will of Jesus Christ and not worry about some big "thus saith the Lord". This past conference had some changes and I presume that more will happen in October. Finding out that a division of statisticians and researchers are guiding and studying church organizational changes is considered to be how God is directing the church. The people working on those changes are doing the "study it out in your mind" and then we can all expect that the correct course will result. It's a heady time to be an Orthodox Mormon even if no changes are made to the standard works.

[oliblish]

I recall once Gordon Hinckley alluding to the notion that they had moved some church assets around prior to the real estate bubble and subsequent market crash to avoid losses. How about dispensing some of that revelation. Of course that would be measurable thus going against the norm of vauge and non verifiable predictions.

They were not very prophetic when they made bad investments at church-owned Beneficial Life Insurance Company and lost $600+ million dollars. They laid off most of the staff and it would be completely shut down except they need a skeleton crew to pay any claims to their existing policy holders.

Beneficial Life to shut down, eventually
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=6836506&nid=148

Here is a Beneficial Life commercial featuring Thomas Monson just a few years before it went under. He seems quite optimistic about the company even though it would start incurring major losses just a year or two later:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiAUIxItWvQ

When the roll is called up yonder, Beneficial will be there

Technically the company is still there, although you can't buy a policy from them anymore.

Fortunately they still sell benefits that you can redeem after death in the form of tithes and offerings...

[jfro18]

The LDS church easily has a narrative that allows it to retain everything about prophets by not have to prove anything by it.

The infamous Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet give a pass to prophets so that they can receive revelation but not have to take a firm stand on receiving it.

Man this is amazing... considering how often I've read apologists say "But he never said 'Thus saith the Lord' so it's not doctrine" lately...

I want to print this off and frame it:
Sixth: The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture.

Sometimes there are those who argue about words. They might say the prophet gave us counsel but that we are not obliged to follow it unless he says it is a commandment. But the Lord says of the Prophet, “Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you.” (D&C 21:4.)

And speaking of taking counsel from the prophet, in D&C 108:1, the Lord states:

“Verily thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Lyman: Your sins are forgiven you, because you have obeyed my voice in coming up hither this morning to receive counsel of him whom I have appointed.”

Said Brigham Young, “I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture.” (Journal of Discourses, 13:95.)

[moksha]

The last revelation given was mentioned by President Nelson while he was addressing a group of young LDS people in Hawaii. He said that God had instructed President Monson and the Brethren that the children of same-sex couples who married cannot be part of the Church. Apparently, God was sorely wrought that the Supreme Court upheld the equal protection clause of the divinely inspired Constitution and decided to boot the kids out of the Church.

Of course, that sounds like blasphemy to accuse the Lord of such misplaced anger, when the war against same-sex marriage was an obsessive issue with the Brethren.