There's no good time to make a break

[TestimonyLost]

I'm sorry. I think my dad is kind of where you are. I wonder if he ever made a spreadsheet? My siblings are all grown up and gone, but my nephews are teenagers, so there are ordinances, a mission soon, marriages come soon after that, my kids' baptisms, and then their ordinances, missions, marriages, more baby blessings...and then death I guess. It's not a very pleasant way of looking at it.

There just isn't a good time. And if I am honest with myself, there wasn't a good time to have a faith crisis either, it just kind of happened regardless of what was going on in my life. Although having one at twenty would have been a hell of a lot better than after I was married and had kids.

I'm in a tough spot right now. I was going to come clean with my husband because I just couldn't take it anymore and I really need to step back. And now I don't know if I can because it would be one extra thing on him when there's some really big stuff going on. But here's the thing: I'm dealing with real life right now too, AND I'm keeping this stupid mormon thing all bottled up inside. While I'm trying to be so considerate of my husband, who is being considerate about me? It's time for some serious self care.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that as much as we try to make it easy on the people around us (and I'm going to anthropomorphize faith crises here), no person's faith crisis cared whether it was a good timing or not and the mormons in our lives don't care how we feel so long as they get to go on pretending everything is okay.

A lot of good stuff here that I can really relate to!

It’s been about a year since I opened up to my wife about the extent of my disaffection. We had a rough few months where we made no progress. I finally asked her one day if she would stay with me as an open apostate with head held high and she wasn’t sure she could. So I gave in. I stopped pushing. I got my new shiny temple recommend and agreed to shut up for as long as I could manage it.

Here I am a year later unsure if all that pain was worth it. Almost nothing has changed.

I’ve complained before (probably here, but definitely to myself) that it feels like I have to do more than my share of the emotional work here. I need to keep things bottled up, I can’t say anything or I’m the bad guy, I have to keep my secret safe for her not me. It’s wearing and very lonely.

Your comment reminds me that at least a part of my post is pretty sexist. I’m lamenting the potential ordinances I would miss if I left the church while forgetting that an entire group of people can’t participate no matter how much they believe. Sorry about that.

Yes and it's gotten much better than it was 4 years ago--but I'm much more careful how I talk about it. I was going to say he's so much better about my "apostasy"--doesn't get upset if I do things on Sunday now that we wouldn't have before, that I don't wear G's, that I drink tea (gasp), occasionally agrees with my concerns about the church, etc. but really, I'm the one making all the accommodations. To the outside world I am a literal card-carrying TBM. So, he gets what he wants and that why MerrieMiss' post (below) resonated with me so much....

While I'm trying to be so considerate of my husband, who is being considerate about me? It's time for some serious self care.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that as much as we try to make it easy on the people around us (and I'm going to anthropomorphize faith crises here), no person's faith crisis cared whether it was a good timing or not and the mormons in our lives don't care how we feel so long as they get to go on pretending everything is okay.

He gets to pretend and nothing really changes for him..for me I have to keep on faking, lying and living a lie and so he's ok with my little secret disobediences because no one knows. I wonder what would happen if I broke cover?

You’ve been at it longer but it sounds a lot like my situation. Except for me the “little things” she’s turned a blind eye to are caffeinated soda (at work only!), first person shooter video games (not around the kids!), and M-rated stand up comedy. I can’t imagine what she’d do if she knew I drank coffee…

It’s your last question that keeps me up at night. In my worst nightmares, I see myself broken and alone abandoned by my family. It paralyzes me. So every once in a while, I’ve got to throw a thread on here so I don’t feel so alone…

[Anon70]

It’s your last question that keeps me up at night. In my worst nightmares, I see myself broken and alone abandoned by my family. It paralyzes me. So every once in a while, I’ve got to throw a thread on here so I don’t feel so alone…

Hugs, you're not alone--fortunately and unfortunately!

[MerrieMiss]

Your comment reminds me that at least a part of my post is pretty sexist. I’m lamenting the potential ordinances I would miss if I left the church while forgetting that an entire group of people can’t participate no matter how much they believe. Sorry about that.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't take your post that way at all. In fact, I appreciate posts like your because it gives me a different perspective. Distancing myself from mormonism is lousy, but how much worse would it be if I were a man and had periodic public events where I had to show my family and the ward that I am still in? And if I chose not to, then some other man would stand in as proxy for my kid's ordinance. And my kid would not only be told his parent is a bad person, but the evidence would be there too - such a bad person they couldn't even (bless, ordain, baptize) like they should have, public shaming for all to see, evidence of the loss of the power of god. Not to say that it's easy for a woman either. I had to watch my last kid be blessed and I had no say in making it less...mormon and more NOM-ish. I feel the same way about an upcoming baptism. I'll watch on the sidelines as my kid is taken from me. But if I were a man, I'd be watching on the sidelines while some other man took my kid from me....

Honestly, it sucks whether you're a man or a woman. It' a no win. And experiencing the negatives of leaving mormonism isn't a contest to see who feels worst. It's bad no matter who you are.

[slavereeno]

It’s your last question that keeps me up at night. In my worst nightmares, I see myself broken and alone abandoned by my family. It paralyzes me. So every once in a while, I’ve got to throw a thread on here so I don’t feel so alone…

yep, definitely not alone..

[MalcolmVillager]

Yeah, same story here, different channel.

I loved the church. I felt and still feel at home there. I just can't take the mindless loyalty and mansplaining of BS like 6k year old earth, literal global flood, BofA, polygamy, sexism, blind obedience, lack of financial transparency, etc...

We live in the MorCor. Our families are almost all TBM. I feel for the kids who will likely lose friendships and be shunned if we left. Realistically I am not going to sleep around, party, or drink. I don't know how much different my life would be if I lived completely on my terms.

For now I make it work by avoiding church whenever I can justify it, do the minimal effort without being a jerk in my calling, and look the part. I voice my opinion when it is not completely apostate, but most things I keep to myself. People are not open minded or ready for change or the truth.

DW is coming along slowly but surely. I even have her convinced to go to an Open Stories Foundation retreat in a few weeks if we can pull it off.

We'll see when and if we transition. If I can be a cafeteria Mormon on my terms, without getting shunned i will play along. I have some firm lijnes in the sand for my future. But it's still sand. Who knows. Would I stand outside of a child's wedding?!! I tell myself I could if that is how it plays out, but who knows.

Good luck to all who stand firmly in the middle of this crazy village with me in solidarity.

[glass shelf]

Your comment reminds me that at least a part of my post is pretty sexist. I’m lamenting the potential ordinances I would miss if I left the church while forgetting that an entire group of people can’t participate no matter how much they believe. Sorry about that.

I will admit that I frequently get annoyed about this issue, but I'll give you lots of credit for recognizing it.

[slavereeno]

Your comment reminds me that at least a part of my post is pretty sexist. I’m lamenting the potential ordinances I would miss if I left the church while forgetting that an entire group of people can’t participate no matter how much they believe. Sorry about that.

My BIL (a questioning? TBM) reads the TBM blogs to keep his cog dis from exploding his head, had me read this blog article. The point of the article was how wonderfully God treats women in the church and how "help meet" really means they are so much more than a just a helper. It had all these "in the ancient hebrew..." type statements. TL;DR version: Women are the best thing ever in the church and they are treated so so good that they don't have anything to complain about.

It was written by a dude and when I read it I felt like asking BIL how that article reconciled with polygamy and polyandry and stuff taught about those in the early history of the church. To me it was not only an attempt to marginalize women and their plight in modern Mormonism, but a attempt to rewrite the polygamy-cult history of the church.

I used to think polygamy was just an inconvenient black eye on the church, but the more I learn, the more I realize that polygamy's lecherous hand prints are all over everything in Mormonism....

[TestimonyLost]

Hugs, you're not alone--fortunately and unfortunately!

Thanks! It is unfortunate how much we can all relate to the deep pain.

Honestly, it sucks whether you're a man or a woman. It' a no win. And experiencing the negatives of leaving mormonism isn't a contest to see who feels worst. It's bad no matter who you are.

Thanks for giving me some latitude for my failure to see beyond my own experience. It is bad no matter what.

yep, definitely not alone..

United in our angst!

Yeah, same story here, different channel.

I loved the church. I felt and still feel at home there. I just can't take the mindless loyalty and mansplaining of BS like 6k year old earth, literal global flood, BofA, polygamy, sexism, blind obedience, lack of financial transparency, etc...

We live in the MorCor. Our families are almost all TBM. I feel for the kids who will likely lose friendships and be shunned if we left. Realistically I am not going to sleep around, party, or drink. I don't know how much different my life would be if I lived completely on my terms.

For now I make it work by avoiding church whenever I can justify it, do the minimal effort without being a jerk in my calling, and look the part. I voice my opinion when it is not completely apostate, but most things I keep to myself. People are not open minded or ready for change or the truth.

DW is coming along slowly but surely. I even have her convinced to go to an Open Stories Foundation retreat in a few weeks if we can pull it off.

We'll see when and if we transition. If I can be a cafeteria Mormon on my terms, without getting shunned i will play along. I have some firm lijnes in the sand for my future. But it's still sand. Who knows. Would I stand outside of a child's wedding?!! I tell myself I could if that is how it plays out, but who knows.

Good luck to all who stand firmly in the middle of this crazy village with me in solidarity.

Sometimes it all feels like a work in progress that may never be complete, doesn’t it? But you sound pretty zen about the whole thing. Something to aspire to!

I will admit that I frequently get annoyed about this issue, but I'll give you lots of credit for recognizing it.

That’s understandable. Do you think women have a mirror for this issue? If not, what issues exist for a woman losing faith in the LDS church that men don’t experience? Just curious to understand the other side a bit better.

[TestimonyLost]

My BIL (a questioning? TBM) reads the TBM blogs to keep his cog dis from exploding his head, had me read this blog article. The point of the article was how wonderfully God treats women in the church and how "help meet" really means they are so much more than a just a helper. It had all these "in the ancient hebrew..." type statements. TL;DR version: Women are the best thing ever in the church and they are treated so so good that they don't have anything to complain about.

It was written by a dude and when I read it I felt like asking BIL how that article reconciled with polygamy and polyandry and stuff taught about those in the early history of the church. To me it was not only an attempt to marginalize women and their plight in modern Mormonism, but a attempt to rewrite the polygamy-cult history of the church.

I used to think polygamy was just an inconvenient black eye on the church, but the more I learn, the more I realize that polygamy's lecherous hand prints are all over everything in Mormonism....

For a time, the faithful but liberal blogs provided an anchor to the church for me. But looking back, I actually credit sites like BCC for starting me on my faith crisis. Sometimes, just being aware of the issue is enough. I’ll never forget reading a post with an offhand comment about the “Book of Abraham problem.” Huh? What problem? Furious googling ensued. I spent years fighting off the inevitable faith crisis with shelf items like this weighing me down.

I’m torn on the issue of how the church treats women. I see how many women are hurt by it. But I also see my wife, a stay-at-home mom with a bunch of little kids, and the only place she truly feels valued is at church. From her perspective, no one else does a particularly good job of emphasizing the value of women who have chosen her lifestyle and some outright tear her down for it.

[slavereeno]

But I also see my wife, a stay-at-home mom with a bunch of little kids, and the only place she truly feels valued is at church. From her perspective, no one else does a particularly good job of emphasizing the value of women who have chosen her lifestyle and some outright tear her down for it.

My wife is/was a stay at home mom also, and has expressed a similar sentiment. She resents being told she wasted her life on our kids. There are fewer people "in the world" that express this sentiment than the church would have us believe. She does get turned off by the brand of feminism that reprimands her for spending her time with our kids. That being said, she is not happy about polygamy and she hasn't even done a deep dive of the issues yet. I think the things preached over the pulpit until at least 1920 we're overtly, unambiguously misogynistic.

[glass shelf]

The #1 group of people that have told me that I wasted my life being a SAHM is exmo men.

The Mormon church tells women that the'y have only one approved role, shapes them for that role, guilts them into it, and then pay lip service to how important that role is. They've created a "problem" and set themselves up as the only solution for TBM believers. I remember one of my greatest moments of cog diss was the "I'm a Mormon" campaign. I'd sacrificed so much to be a "righteous" SAHM as I'd been taught, and here was the church blasting examples of amazing women who'd done the opposite as the ideal Mormons. (Note: I don't resent the success of those women. I resent that dreams and aspirations were basically stolen from me as I tried to be more and more of what the church taught me a good woman should be. I wish I'd realized that there lots of valid life choices and ways to structure a family a lot sooner.)

[Not Buying It]

The #1 group of people that have told me that I wasted my life being a SAHM is exmo men.

The Mormon church tells women that the'y have only one approved role, shapes them for that role, guilts them into it, and then pay lip service to how important that role is. They've created a "problem" and set themselves up as the only solution for TBM believers. I remember one of my greatest moments of cog diss was the "I'm a Mormon" campaign. I'd sacrificed so much to be a "righteous" SAHM as I'd been taught, and here was the church blasting examples of amazing women who'd done the opposite as the ideal Mormons. (Note: I don't resent the success of those women. I resent that dreams and aspirations were basically stolen from me as I tried to be more and more of what the church taught me a good woman should be. I wish I'd realized that there lots of valid life choices and ways to structure a family a lot sooner.)

I am so sorry. I am deeply troubled by what the Church has done to female members in terms of limiting their growth and potential.

There is nothing wrong with choosing to be a SAHM if you do it fully informed, free of pressure, and with your eyes wide open. But I mourn for the women who would have done other things and didn't because the Church convinced them that staying home and raising children was their only option. There is a lot of lost potential and tons of tragically missed opportunities among women in the Church thanks to the sexist and oppressive teachings of the gray haired old men who run the organization and were probably pretty primeval in their approach to women relative to everyone else even back 70 years ago when they were young. I bet they were behind the times even then, never mind now.

I had a real tough time in our Mother's Day Sacrament Meeting this past Sunday, some elderly gentleman got up, read a bunch of sexist GA quotes from 30 years ago (the sexism was even worse in the E.T. Benson era), and listed ways that women could use their talents, things like serving on the PTA and volunteering at schools and things like that "along with your primary responsibility to raise and nurture children". I sent an angry text to all my kids "or a woman could use her talents by having a freaking career!!!" That guy was a jerk - the last thing that should be taught on Mother's Day is that women are restricted by their supposedly divine roles that keep them out of the workplace. I was disgusted.

Get your wives and daughters out of this crazy religion if you want them to truly have a choice about being a SAHM or doing something else. Not saying one choice is better than the other, just saying women should have a choice, and in the Church they don't really have one if they want to "follow the Brethren".

[IT_Veteran]

Get your wives and daughters out of this crazy religion if you want them to truly have a choice about being a SAHM or doing something else. Not saying one choice is better than the other, just saying women should have a choice, and in the Church they don't really have one if they want to "follow the Brethren".

This is one of the things that worries me. My wife would be considered a NOM by most, but my 13yo DD is still TBM. I worry about her internalizing a lot of these messages simply because they speak with an authority that I don't. I don't claim to speak for God. I think my DD knows I don't even believe in the biblical God anymore, so I have lost any authority to speak on that particular topic. Everything in the church simply teaches her that I've lost the spirit and just can't discern what she needs spiritually, so listen to these octogenarian guys - they really understand what a 13yo girl in today's world needs to know.

[glass shelf]

The #1 group of people that have told me that I wasted my life being a SAHM is exmo men.

The Mormon church tells women that the'y have only one approved role, shapes them for that role, guilts them into it, and then pay lip service to how important that role is. They've created a "problem" and set themselves up as the only solution for TBM believers. I remember one of my greatest moments of cog diss was the "I'm a Mormon" campaign. I'd sacrificed so much to be a "righteous" SAHM as I'd been taught, and here was the church blasting examples of amazing women who'd done the opposite as the ideal Mormons. (Note: I don't resent the success of those women. I resent that dreams and aspirations were basically stolen from me as I tried to be more and more of what the church taught me a good woman should be. I wish I'd realized that there lots of valid life choices and ways to structure a family a lot sooner.)

I am so sorry. I am deeply troubled by what the Church has done to female members in terms of limiting their growth and potential.

There is nothing wrong with choosing to be a SAHM if you do it fully informed, free of pressure, and with your eyes wide open. But I mourn for the women who would have done other things and didn't because the Church convinced them that staying home and raising children was their only option. There is a lot of lost potential and tons of tragically missed opportunities among women in the Church thanks to the sexist and oppressive teachings of the gray haired old men who run the organization and were probably pretty primeval in their approach to women relative to everyone else even back 70 years ago when they were young. I bet they were behind the times even then, never mind now.

I had a real tough time in our Mother's Day Sacrament Meeting this past Sunday, some elderly gentleman got up, read a bunch of sexist GA quotes from 30 years ago (the sexism was even worse in the E.T. Benson era), and listed ways that women could use their talents, things like serving on the PTA and volunteering at schools and things like that "along with your primary responsibility to raise and nurture children". I sent an angry text to all my kids "or a woman could use her talents by having a freaking career!!!" That guy was a jerk - the last thing that should be taught on Mother's Day is that women are restricted by their supposedly divine roles that keep them out of the workplace. I was disgusted.

Get your wives and daughters out of this crazy religion if you want them to truly have a choice about being a SAHM or doing something else. Not saying one choice is better than the other, just saying women should have a choice, and in the Church they don't really have one if they want to "follow the Brethren".

Thank you.

I'm deep into my plan to return to a career that I love, and I'm glad I have that now. It just makes me sad to realize that I never considered the option 20 years ago and think of all the impact that's had on me and my family. I was talking with my mom about this issue this week, and we talked about how we both never really had a dream because what was the point? I got my first bachelor's when I was 21 in something that I enjoyed studying, but I never really looked at career options or thought about the future beyond how I would have kids one day. I hate that I limited myself so much based on what a bunch of old men said, but I really did believe that they spoke for God at the time no matter how much I find that hard to believe at this point.